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- A compendium of lesson games with Kurt:
-
- ( A run-on file end-to-end ). :=)
-
- -----------============****************=============--------------
-
-
-
- >Hi. A question for you. This position or some variant thereof
- >seems to be a favorite with Sensei. His PBS game featured something
- >like this, and he was allowed to get what looked like a fairly substantial
- >amount of side territory. The capping move looks like a very big
- >overplay, though. Don't you think so?
-
- (1) The Suzuki-Wahl game was not PBS, but "public access." It would be
- really *nice* to have PBS take an interest in GO activity.
- Rumour has it that KIRO-TV (local CBS affiliate) will be at the
- Saturday tournament (tomorrow). We have to keep a "low profile"
- regarding any lesson games with you, if you want to enter, (and
- play 4 or 5 rounds). Total time is 90 minutes per game with food
- eating breaks between rounds. Start time is 12:00 noon PST. That
- might keep you up to well after 1:00 or 2:00 am Sunday EST ( or
- 10 - 11 pm PST ). Range of player strengths is between 7 kyu and
- 6 dan.
-
- (2) To say "overplay" is to invoke the "territory/influence" trade-off
- point in *the* (hypothetical) algorithm estimator.
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | Is this too high?
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Is that your question?
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | Justifiable by 4,7 ?
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . O . . . . . * . . . | Eio Sakata plays this way
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | in a 9-stone game.
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Aug 20, 1989.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Most everybody agrees that White's capping play in a 9-stone game
- is a very good move at an early opportunity. Why this is so demands
- a great deal of thinking/analysis/experience about GO.
-
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- >In my last game, I played:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . 6 . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . 4 3 . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . 7 . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- Better might have been:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O a . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . B . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- But you enjoy the "pressuring" maneuver, so (from 'dog face' extension)
- is also possible:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . D . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . B a . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . e c . * . . . | 3-stone corner block
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | is usually a strong shape
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | for "influence."
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- If white attacks the upper right corner, then Black recapitulates by
- connecting to the 10,4 stone (dividing up white in three ways).
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . F . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . g O * . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . * * . * . . . | 3-stone corner block
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | is usually a strong shape
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | for "influence."
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
- So, white will first defend against a Black invasion to 10,4 and then
- Black can block access to the upper-right corner.
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . k . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . H F O * . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . J i g * * . * . . . | 3-stone corner block
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | is usually a strong shape
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | for "influence."
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Yielding this:
- I can't say how white replies beyond this point.
- The large Black moyo has become very "seductive" for tempting an early
- White invasion. Playing less "aggressively" is a discretion (the better
- part of valor).
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b A . . | If White "A" then maybe Black
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . * b . . | should block or cut? "b"
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . O . * . . . | (against Sensei, remember)
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . O O O * . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . O * * * * . * . . . | Perhaps block is better,
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | because Black made a big
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | moyo.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- >However, I also looked at this:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Well, I've tried it and it's not as good. White has many ways of
- replying, such as: ( if Black at "a" ):
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . a B D . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . F c e * . . . | And now White exerts
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | pressure on Black's stones.
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Later I see that you
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | discuss it herein: )
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
-
- If Black tries to wriggle between White's stones, maybe we have:
-
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O k . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . H D c e * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . F a B . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . J i g . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Giving, with White to move next:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . O O * * * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . O * * . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- > the "horse's neck" extension. This is pretty severe, isn't it? I mean
- > if it works, the white "territory" sketched by his first three moves
- > is gone, and the white stones are not working together.
-
- Well, show me how it "works" ....
-
-
- > My tesuji book suggests that this kind of extension is uncuttable except
- > under circumstancers where [in this case] white has become stronger in
- > the surrounding area. In any event, how would you expect Sensei to
- > respond?
-
- Oh, I see that your tesuji book (or is this *you* ?) agrees with me:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . 7 . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . 8 * 1 3 6 . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . 5 2 4 * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- ? looks pretty good for black. Other 8th moves may even be better. I
- ? don't know, I can't really analyze with much accuracy yet. White
- ? could try to invade at 3,3 and try to then negate black's outside
- ? influence:
-
-
- Whoa, are you kidding? Take another look at it:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | White has next move, so
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | White's group can't be
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . O . . * . . . | killed.
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O * . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . O * * * . . . | < -- This white stone has a
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | "ladder protector."
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Eventually the Black
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | stones will be killed,
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | or White will derive
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | considerable momentum
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | by the chase.
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | How can you say that Black
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | has improved his position?
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
-
- (Instead), from your diagram, with White moving first, we have. . . ?
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * 3 . 11| Yes, this seems like a
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . 4 9 . | reasonable joseki, except
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . 10. | Sensei plays "7" at 2,2
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | (usually in handicap
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | games).
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | "11" is then placed under "9".
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | See next diagram.
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- This looks like:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O . O . | With a White shape "7" at 2,2.
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * O . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * O . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . * O O | With "11" under "9" .
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . * . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- > but then black has sente, too. (Or was there a better invasion sequence?)
- > Or maybe black should build his wall in the other direction? I guess
- > what I'm really asking is what you think of the plan? an whether there
- > is some more-or-less obvious refutation that I am missing? Or, if not
- > refutation, then how would _you_ play if hit with the big extension?
-
- Ok, the phrase "has sente, _too_" is incorrect. If Black "has sente"
- this means that: (1) It is Black's move and Black's shapes are secure.
- or: (2) It is White's move but White must defend something.
-
- Either White or Black "has sente" (if the position is analyzable). If
- the position is too complicated then we don't lay claim to "sente" for
- either player. (This statement demands a positive certainty.) Please
- try to resolve for yourself (as if you are alternatively playing White
- and Black) *who* "has sente" *if* there exists some "sente."
-
- Yes, Black now comes out ahead, so White must have done something wrong.
-
- Re: invasion sequence. Well, you can clearly see that it is "too early"
- to invade the corner. Or, it is "too late" after Black got both 4,4 & 4,6
- in place. White's pressure on the corner (as a ko treat) continues to
- remain if Black chooses not to defend it. If White wants to move *toward*
- the corner, he ought to simply extend from his stones (and keep sente),
- to settle for collapsing Black's territory a little bit. (This is why
- the type of position given, before White's invasion at 3.3, has "ko"
- feeling, in the "ko" category. A move toward that corner might be included
- in that set of "ko treats" forming the "ko catalogue."
-
- White originally planned to form two walls that would enclose the Black
- stone on the topside at 10,4. By invading the corner at 3,3 White
- changed horses in mid-stream. In GO, one ought to formulate a plan and
- stay with that original plan. (This is the "definition" of what a plan is.)
- So, we can conclude that Mr. Suzuki's grand strategy doesn't include an
- *early* invasion of the corner (against 9-stone handicap). First Sensei
- will build "outer influence" in the center territory (gaining "credit"
- instead of "cash territory"), *then* he will attack the weak corners
- left behind by making Black dizzy.
-
- When playing a 4-stone handicap game, the grand strategy is different.
- White *may*, under such playing conditions, consider an early invasion
- of the corners.
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu ) < -- any address works
-
-
- >First, I have to disagree with the idea that handicap stones are poised
- >for territory rather than influence. Stones on the fourth line are
- >certainly not efficient at taking territory. I was told once in
- >Philadelphia that a trade of a third-line inner wall for a fourth line
- >outter wall is about even (all else being equal), but a fifth line for
- >fourth line favors the fourth line - too much territory for the outer
- >influence. But I don't think that particular view changes the "outward"
- >yearnings of the handicap stones.
-
- Yes, I stated it exactly backwards. Thanks for being attentive.
- The 4,4 & 10,4 points are influence. In a 9-stone game (with komi), however,
- against a professional, Black must use the Handicaps for territory instead,
- because White is pursuing influence. Thus, Black cannot apply his "optimal"
- strategy as he might in an even game. I think this counter-intuitive
- conclusion requires some understandable elaboration. A game of GO "should"
- produce a score nearly the same for both sides; i.e. its outcome should be
- zero. When the deck is stacked in one direction there must be some sort of
- compensation for the other player in another direction. Say, for example,
- Black has some advantage measured as +5. Then White has some complementary
- advantage measured as +5i, with i = sqr(-1). Black begins a 9-stone game
- showing lots of influence. Thereby White seeks to steal this influence
- as soon as possible. This is *White's* strategy. Because Black *already*
- shows influence he must find balance by consolidating territory. In the
- high handicap game Black must utilize his handicaps for territory instead.
- Though this approach is a suboptimal strategy among evenly matched players,
- it becomes a *sound* approach between players who are *unevenly* matched.
- White's ability to make either territory or influence is superior to Black's.
- So, if Black attempts an influence game against White's influence game,
- Black will lose. The GO proverb is the basis: "If one player chooses
- influence the other player may choose territory; if one player chooses
- territory the other player may choose influence." Begin from the proverb.
- If both players are evenly matched they may both fight for influence or
- both "fight" for territory. In uneven games, the best advice is to follow
- the proverb. Now, you might say that White is *violating* the proverb by
- playing influence against Black's existing influence. Well, yes, White has
- to *violate* indeed against the terror of 9 Black handicap stones !!!
- White's *violating* capabilities outstrip Black under these playing
- definitions. (I anticipate that you're not going to be convinced so
- easily by my argument, so I'm saving these and other letters for those
- glory days a couple of years hence when you discover the same principles
- through the tried and true time-tested "trial and error" methods.)
-
- Different regions of the board may have different strategy pursuits. We
- might have White pursuing influence in the upper-right while Black takes
- his territory. On the same board Black might be pursuing influence in
- the lower-left while White takes territory. Also, qualify my advice in
- this context -- it is advice to improve your game with Sensei, not specifically
- as advice to improve your games against peers. It follows that if your
- game against Sensei improves you will make more rapid progress at GO in
- the long-run than the rate of progress you might make against defeating
- peers (through an assortment of of possibly unsound techniques). By
- developing sound habits in brain-hand coordination your finger(s) can
- remember the right plays many years from now as you approach the dan
- players. Sometimes GO is not so much a matter of remembering the general
- principles as discerning the cases that offer exceptions to the principles.
- Believe me, I'm not trying to make your lesson experiences unnecessarily
- difficult and frustrating. As you improve you will discern more and more
- "refinements" to the early perceptions of the rules. All I hope to do
- is set your mind into an upwardly mobile groove. Paradoxically you will
- encounter increasing "frustration" at GO as your challenges increase;
- you will find yourself playing White against Black's handicaps. Then you
- will have to play the game of "breaking the rules" (i.e. the "rules" that
- Black expects). GO is a variant of "Whose game is it?" or "Whose rules?"
- But, this "frustration" is *not* the "frustration" of learning the game;
- it will be the "frustration" of the challenge posed by the other player.
- My hope is to reduce your "frustration" at acquiring rudimentary GO skill,
- not to impede your progress towards the ultimate "frustration" that is game.
-
- Many conclusions about how GO must be played against peers and against
- Sensei are derivable. There may be, however, a few differences of opinion
- that reflect stylistic variations which persist, with some parallelism, among
- the title holders. If you accept that there are ecclectic approaches to GO,
- even in the *ultimate* sense, then I have done my basic job, which was to
- free you from the misconception that there was a singleminded shortcut to GO.
-
-
-
-
-
- >That said, I've got another idea for my (next?) lesson game with Sensei.
- >I was disturbed by his initial plays at the 7,7 point. These moves bugged
- >me because they didn't give me a target to try to make "heavy" or make
- >"live small." (Not that I've had success in either endeavor in any game
- >against Mr. Suzuki!!) Here it is (fanfare, drumrole, ...):
-
- Well, 7.7 is also 'influence,' right? Will you attempt to fight an
- 'influence' game against a much stronger player? Sensei will not provide
- you with a "target." I am just now beginning to decipher when some shape
- might be a "target." I have *defeated* Sensei (by actual score) only twice
- without any handicaps, due only to his overplays at attempting 90 point komi.
- Sensei is the first person to detect when you might be "aiming" at him. He
- detects your "aiming" even when it was unintentional or inadvertent.
-
-
-
-
- >In response to each 7,7 stone I will play san san. Ta da! That seems to
- >support the proverb about influence vs. territory. It seems the exchange
- >of the 3,3 for the 7,7 favors black, who now has _four safe corners_ and
- >is ready to extend with large kiema from each 4,4 stones.
-
- This was also a favorite technique of John Hartmann, who had introduced me
- to Sensei 3 years ago. I'm not aware of anyone else who plays this way.
- John is still a 4-kyu player, because he doesn't play much go these days.
- I can't think of any reason not to try it but doesn't it seem to go too
- far against your earlier intuition about taking side territory and
- growing *out* from the corners into center influence? Learn by finding
- the limits and the problems that present themselves in approaching each limit!
-
-
-
-
-
- >Re: 9-dan vs. 9-dan handicap. I wasn't referring to video, actually, but
- >rather any English language books which feature high-handicap games played
- >by very strong players. Kage's Secret Chronicles is pretty enlightening,
- >but they only go so high as 7 stones (which is pretty massive).
-
- Yes, you're right. This is an underpublished area. One reason might be
- due to the "low profile" desired by the strong players. (I think that they'd
- secretly rather be normal humans like the rest of us.) If I were a strong
- player, I'd rather not see 9-stone handicap games go into print. I don't
- want to brag to the world. Then again, it's *not* bragging because the
- other guy was just so much weaker. It doesn't illustrate GO. So, since
- it doesn't illustrate GO how can I justify publishing it as a GO example?
- I don't want to embarrass anyone. Also, White made many unreasonable
- overplays that don't provide a satisfactory feeling about winning the game.
-
-
-
- >I have some go newsletters, and one with a recent Honinbo title game with
- >Takemiya playing the san san in conjunction with the sanren-sei. Do you
- >also get these newsletters? I will send you a copy if you like, and if you
- >don't already get them. I really enjoy Takemiya's games. I played through
- >some games (Kato vs. Cho) that I was thoroughly confused by. Extremely
- >tactical, or so they seemed. Lots of big groups (more than 10 stones)
- >getting exchanged.
-
- I have all 54 issues of the Ishi Press magazine GO WORLD, excepting #5 & #6
- which are today's collector items. John Hartmann told me awhile ago that
- he *has* #5 & #6 !!!
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
-
- >The 7,7 stone _must be_ (putting on my dogma hat) considered too one sided.
- >It is purely an influence move, no? It takes no territory, and must be
- >considered a psychological ploy.
-
- I share your suspicion that 7,7 is "hypnotic." When, however, had we
- suspended (tabled) those suspicions ? But, beyond the 9-stone handicaps,
- the "10th - 13th stones" go at the 7,7 points. The "14th - 17th stones"
- go at the 3,3 points. Seventeen is the "maximum" (because Black theoretically
- kills White everywhere) but for the sake of the "game" more handicaps can
- be added: "18th - 21st stones" go at the 10,3 points. So, there is some
- considerable logic to playing at the 7,7 point (a Chinese handicap point).
- If Black were to add more stones beyond 9-stones before White may play,
- Black most likely might choose 7,7 . So, White is simply beginning at
- the "tail" of the Black "group" (in the abstract) which is where one approach
- to GO says White may begin.
-
- Consider that as the number of Black handicap stones increases in the range
- 10 thru 17, Black "takes" the whole damn board. The distinction between
- whether the stones are "territory" or "influence" becomes spurious as White's
- opportunities are supposed to be non-existent in the face of 17 Black stones.
- Any move White makes under those conditions is _prima_facia_ absurd and
- unreasonable. Nonetheless, it is an exercise for White and Black in the
- life and death problem to study the 17-stone situation. (If White lives,
- White "wins;" if Black kills White everywhere, Black "wins.") Most of
- the beginners will choose White, instead of Black, because beginners can't
- believe that White will die against 17 stones.
-
- White's move at 7,7 is following the GO proverb: "Play where your opponent
- wants to play." It really is strong, unbeknownst to you, after one has
- studied the corner josekis. White at 7,7 intercepts most of the ladders
- leading out of the corner (and two side directions), so there is that category
- of White invasion josekis re-enabled by a 7,7 play. I don't know whether
- Black at 3,3 stops most of these White invasion josekis on the corner position.
- This is a question we might ask Sensei. The problem, however, is that I'm
- not sure whether Mr. Suzuki knows what Black's "best" reply *is*. Like you,
- I'm not convinced unless I can present a rational explanation for it. And,
- even after 3,500 years of GO research the professionals say about most
- positions: "Nobody knows the best move."
-
-
-
- > When I asked you about 9-dan handicap games, I meant 9 dan giving 9 stones to
- > 9 dan. See? I think this must have been done, in order to illustrate the
- > proper utilization of the handicap advantage. Now, can you imagine the
- > 7,7 stone being the first move by white under such circumstances? Almost
- > certainly not, right? Now you're going to trot out that argument about
- > playing under the constraints of reality, the relative differences of
- > playing strength between white and black, and (more immediately) between
- > me and Sensei. But this is another matter...
-
- Oh. Yes, this might be an excellent idea. I've heard that 9-dan v. 9-dan,
- with 9-stone handicaps, leads to an expectation of a 130+ point difference.
- I have never seen any "instructional" videos devoted to 9-dan v. 9-dan with
- an illustration of 9-stone handicap play, nor have I ever seen professionals
- engaging in this type of study. The fact that the Nihon Ki-In had compiled
- the komi statistics says that this must have occurred over many years.
-
- I would not be surprised to see 7,7 as White's first move in this type of
- game. Yes, it's helpful to trot out the arguments for analysis among peers
- as well.
-
- (1) One theory says that it doesn't make any difference for the
- sake of arguments among peers whether we speak of 9-dan v. 9-dan or
- 5-kyu v. 5-kyu. Only the "relative difference" in playing strengths factors
- into the trade-off point between certain territory and uncertain influence.
-
- (2) Another theory says that a 5-kyu might not be capable of exploiting the
- latent possibilities in the move suggested by the 9-dan. The 5-kyu is not
- seeking merely the "magic tesuji" (an isolated move) but also how to apply
- the "magic tesuji" to the next 30 moves.
-
- (If you have another opinion I would certainly like to hear it.) White's
- first move against a peer is identical to White's first move against the
- student. (This may encourage some deep reflection about GO .... )
-
-
-
- > So, back to the 3,3 point. In general I would agree that it is too
- > territorial, and runs counter to what I _feel_ is the proper use of
- > 9 handicap stones which are all poised for influence.
-
- It might be your mistake to attempt an "influence" fight against White.
- I can't anticipate what you consider as "follow-ups" so it's something
- you evidently want to try. It won't be the 3,3 move that is criticized.
-
-
-
- ? BUT, the 7,7
- ? stone is too distant from the corner to make a threat,
-
- No, "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom..."
-
- I think you misinterpret White's playing. *Everything* Sensei plays is
- making some kind of "threat" or building the thickness that contains a
- latent "threat."
-
-
-
- > _AND_ black still
- > has miai for side extensions. From my own position of impoverished
- > understanding about the game, I don't see how the 7,7 stone will prevent
- > me from extending outward and upward into the center, and with the 3,3
- > stones in place, I don't have to worry too much about Sensei "aiming"
- > at invasions.
-
- Yes, this is basically correct. I think Mr. Suzuki would say "One of
- the ways ..."
-
-
-
- > But then, there is mathematics to consider. If white is hoping to blunt
- > black's influence, and he makes 4 purely influence-oriented moves, and
- > black makes 4 purely territory-oriented moves, then white has gained,
- > right? But so has black? So this is a "win win" scenario? Or, in
- > go terms (and I've seen this in print): "so both sides are happy."
-
- The 3,3 point is already "territory" without 4,4 in place. Let's consider
- the "tewari" (backwards playing) analysis. Say Black is only at 3.3, where
- does Black play next in that corner if White hasn't played there? Eio
- Sakata seems to like a large knight's move to 4,6 or the small knight's
- move to 4,5. You said Takemiya played a 3,3 under the 4,4 but what was
- that total board position ? Early game ? I've never seen the extension
- from 3,3 to 4,4 so it surprises me to hear about 4,4 to 3,3 .
-
- Your mathematical question doesn't appear to be a "wiff" (well-formed
- formula). Can you restate it more precisely ?
-
- One idea is to re-instate the "tie" concept in GO so that we might again
- talk about "White gained & Black gained;" they are *both* happy. This is
- a philosophical point concerning the therapy aspect of GO. They are old
- men in the rest-home who are passing time through this marvellous pastime.
- Young people want to know who is the victor, so young people don't like
- the "tie" situation. Actually, much of GO analysis must examine the look-ahead
- where equality is available (the "book") and then determine if there is
- some missing tesuji or combinative sente to squeeze out an extra point.
-
-
-
- > Maybe I'll get lucky and make shape for a change.
-
- In the tournament I say to the other contestants "I was lucky" if I won.
- I say "I am honest" if I lost (meaning my stated entry rating was accurate).
- It's fortunate for me that I need only two replies in regards to the
- tournament record.
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
- To Kurt --
-
- Re Addenda --
-
- I discussed this position without meaning to imply that it was exemplary:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . k . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . H F O * . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . . J i g * * . * . . . | 3-stone corner block
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | is usually a strong shape
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | for "influence."
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- It shows that Black *can* build a large moyo, "if he wants."
- But, it might be better off if Black did not pressure the White stones
- into a strong shape for White:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . d . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . A O * . . . . . | Something near "b" (Black)
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . * * . * . . . | keeps moyo reasonable.
- 13 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Then, "if" White "C" moves
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | towards the upper-right
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | corner, "d" is reasonable.
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- Sometimes a stubborn question leads to an unusual GO position. The trick
- is not to insist upon finishing the 'indicated' sequence prematurely.
-
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu ) < -- any address works
-
-
- >I've started thinking about my "top 10" go principles for you.
-
- I just wanted to put you in my shoes, for variety. But these statements
- of "go principles" are going to be compiled into an archive, hopefully
- a long list of them, that may be useful for computer programmers at GO.
- So, they are for everybody. I'm posting a request to the USENET.
-
-
- "Defend weak groups, not strong groups." < -- extend strong but not weak
- "Don't play close to thickness." < -- qualified by early/late game ..
-
-
- "When cross-cut, extend!" < -- extend which way ?
- "Strange things happen at 2,2." < -- "strange things happen with
- GO principles?"
-
-
-
- >There are principles in chess, like "control the center" which seem to
- >apply, in certain ways, to the go principle of "power." (Are power and
- >influence synonyms?)
-
- Re: power & influence . . .
- Strictly speaking, influence means "future expectation of territory."
- power means "present and/or future territory."
-
- We have to avoid thinking of GO on the "move by move" basis (though this
- is all that we may have to "go" on). A powerful player does not always
- play an "influence" move nor always play a "territory" move. So, I
- am concluding that power and influence are *not* synonyms.
-
-
- >What does "Geta" mean?
-
- "Geta" are Japanese wooden sandals with 2" elevators (to walk through mud).
- After an evening washup at the village public bath, it is traditionally
- popular to "clack, clack, clack" home in these noisy "geta" shoes. Also,
- by making such a noise at night, no one can suspect you of snooping or
- lurking around.
-
- In GO, a "geta" move is a capture play (or variation of a capture play)
- of this type:
-
-
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . a . * . . . . |
- . . . . . O * . . . . | Black at "a" captures the White "O" stone
- . , . . * * . , . . . | at 6,5 .
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- _________________________
-
-
- An "abstract form" of geta: ( also geta )
-
-
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . a . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . * . . . . |
- . . . . . O * . . . . | Black at "a" pressures the White "O" stone
- . , . . * * . , . . . | at 6,5 .
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- _________________________
-
-
- If white attempts an escape we have a sequence: ( bad for white )
-
-
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . a . F g . . . . |
- . . . e B D * . . . . |
- . . . . c O * . . . . | Black at "a" pressures the White "O" stone
- . , . . * * . , . . . | at 6,5 .
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- _________________________
-
- So the situation becomes:
-
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . H . . . . . | White must keep running at "H" + + + :
- . . . * . O * . . . . |
- . . . * O O * . . . . | Black gets strong "influence" on the lower
- . . . . * O * . . . . | right corner.
- . , . . * * . , . . . |
- . . . . . . . . i . . | Capitulation at 3,3 .
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- . . . . . . . . . . . |
- _________________________
-
-
-
- > I also considered the following:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . 2 . . . * . . . a . * . . . | Looks Ok to me ( jb )
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . 1 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . 7 . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . 6 . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- > Previously I had played 4 at a, but this way it makes it harder for Sensei
- > to block off the center.
-
- Yes, "4 at a" introduces symmetry into the Black defense, an inherent GO
- weakness (at least a "sub-optimality"). The "swirl" shape (or "S") is
- the strongest overall pattern, large or small. An "eye" is a sort of
- "swirl" also, on a microscale.
-
-
- > Anyway, here's the point:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . + . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . b a * . * . 2 . * . . . . . * . . . | I'm uncomfortable about Black 2
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | because it leaves open the
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . | third-line. Maybe (2) should
- 13 . . . 1 . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | be at "+" if Black considers
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | playing there.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- > And I can't help but feel that black, not white, has gained.
-
- Yes, I think Black is "gaining" here, but I couldn't say by how much.
-
-
- > If white
- > doesn't settle his group at a black will play b.
-
- Well, don't answer this question until you see where White *did* play !!
- If White doesn't want "a" then (in my opinion) Black at "a" is better
- than Black at "b" in that region (if Black is playing here). But, Black
- already got (2) installed so Black might consider shoring up a corner
- elsewhere.
-
-
-
- > White can also try: ( White at "1" )
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . c . * . * . 1 . * . . . . . * . . . | I think that "1" should *not*
- 15 . . b . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . | be ignored, ruling out "b" & "c".
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . | Also ruling out "e" just now.
- 13 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black: e, f, g, h, i
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | Q. Black "e" or "f" ?
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | In "empty space" this "e" is
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . h . i f . . | *unreasonable* !!!
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . . . . | "e" should be only at "f" !!
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | "h, i, f" *or* "g, i, e"
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | are optimal and reasonable.
-
- > This is the kind of position that baffles me totally. Black a-d all
- > seem reasonable (maybe d is not so reasonable?). But a and d get into
- > contact sequences which makes Sensei's stones strong (mine, too, but
- > he can do more with a strong group than I can). c and d look ok, but
- > aren't they too reactive? Maybe e is better - it's a move Sensei would
- > not ignore, I think, because a two space extension up from e
- > (to top of board, not to center) looks very very big.
-
- a-d are moves to be considered later. Can you provide the context?
-
- Sensei would ignore your "e" (I think) because the invasion at "1" is big.
-
-
- Black's "tesuji" to stop White at A:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . h . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . * d A f * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . C b E . . . . . . . . . . | Black "b" (1st play) is
- 14 . . . . . . . G . . . . . . . * . . . | a sacrifice.
- 13 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | (See result board next.)
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . | White hasn't strong "cutting"
- 16 . . . * . * * O * * . . . . . * . . . | position due to the ko.
- 15 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | White's next move but Black
- 14 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . * . . . | got a high-strong wall.
- 13 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Other alternatives were less
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | satisfactory for White.
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- otherwise ?
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . G . . . . . . . . . . . | This White descent at "G"
- 16 . . . * . * d A f * . . . . . * . . . | isn't very attractive.
- 15 . . . . . . C b E . . . . . . . . . . | (See next diagram.)
- 14 . . . . . . . h . . . . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Despite White's next move ...
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . * * O * * . . . . . * . . . | Black escapes the two stones
- 15 . . . . . . O * O . . . . . . . . . . | in two different ways, and
- 14 . . . . . . . * . . . . . . . * . . . | wins semeai to capture the
- 13 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | two White stones.
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- > Maybe this kind of play is more educational against the 7,7 _ploy_ than
- > playing at 3,3?
-
- I don't know what you mean by "educational." Can you define or elaborate?
-
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
-
-
- > Actually, the Ishi Press "In the Beginning" notes that the 4,4 diagonal
- > extension from the 3,3 is the logical move to make _after_ having made
- > big extensions to the 10,3 points. That is, with 3,3 there is no need
- > for shimari, so big extensions are in order. After the big extensions,
- > next a 4,4 stone moves the 3,3 corner to the center.
-
- Oh to 10.3 !! Aye, there's the rub !! 10.3 alone is "sub-optimal!"
- The logical flow of GO is *low* in the corners and *high* along middle sides.
-
- I recall reading this advice "In the Beginning." It really is "beginning."
- The book wanted to emphasize how one can crawl out of the corners and make
- the first few tentative baby-steps. I think it is a standard joke with some
- of the dan players. It's "thesis" is corner-start and went a little bit
- overboard.
-
-
-
- > I think the reason to question the 3,3 ploy against the 7,7 move is that
- > if black had started with the 3,3 moves, he would have extended to 10,3
- > on either side, not 10,4.
-
- Yes, this means 4 moves when 3.7 moves might have accomplished the same,
- i.e. three moves slightly shifted around that capture/influence nearly
- the same territory.
-
-
-
- > So maybe this shift to 3,3 represents an
- > inconsistency, or, even worse(?) an inefficiency. I think I will not play
- > the 3,3 move. But I am not sure. It was my understanding that the 3,3
- > makes the corner absolutely safe, at the expense of scale. So the
- > attractiveness was to take away one of Sensei's targets while he zoomed
- > around the 7,7 points.
-
- Yes, your attitude is healthy when you have a sense for a move's strengths
- *and* weaknesses. GO is *compromise* among innumerable considerations.
- One might almost think that the "roundness" of the stones indicated a
- certain "roundness" of connectivity, life and play on a board that only
- *presents* an "appearance" of squareness.
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
- > Oh, I get it. The move at f closes the corner but e doesn't. Or at
- > least that's the gist of your point.
-
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | In "empty space" this "e" is
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . h . i f . . | *unreasonable* !!!
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . . . . | "e" should be only at "f" !!
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | "h, i, f" *or* "g, i, e"
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | are optimal and reasonable.
-
- > g, i, e is one of the "ideal" positions, according to Sensei. The
- > big weakness of h instead of g is, at least for my level of understanding,
- > just when the corner really is "closed." I _think_ with h, i, and e
- > white can get ko. If he can also get ko with h, i and f, then e would
- > be better, since it "threatens" a connection to 10,4 in just one move.
- > Not a solid connection, but darned close.
-
- Yes, your signal is receiving loud and clear. But ...
- "Getting ko" is a loose concept. (What kind of "ko?")
-
- The reason for ( h, i, f ) is that there is *less* "ko taste" than
- ( h, i, e ), in fact almost *no* "ko taste," for ( h, i, f ). Indeed,
- I think (today) that the trade-off between "connectivity to 10,4" and the
- degree of residual "ko-taste" occurs between ( g, i, e ) and ( h, i, f ).
- In ( g, i, e ) there is still some "ko-taste" due to the open and inviting
- empty 3,3 point. I suspected Sensei of duping us into using ( g, i, e )
- against him in lesson games because he would so typically turn the corner(s)
- into ko ! Later, some serious analysis and experience watching the dan
- players convinced me that ( h, i, f ) was superior to ( g, i, e ) because
- at some point in the game Black may find some tesuji that requires winning
- a ko. Therefore, Black can play in a manner that leaves *less* trailing
- "ko taste" and gain better control over the game. I am not quite certain
- that the 4,4 point operates *precisely* as a pivot between these shapes.
-
- However, you may recall, because the ( i, f ) in ( h, i, f ) form a 2-stone
- vertical wall, one may play a 2-point extension _on_the_fourth_line_ towards
- the 10,4 at the right middle ! In an example I gave you last week, a
- 2-point extension from the ( i, f ) stones was calculated _on_the_third_line_
- because of the presence of nearby White stones.
-
-
-
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | In "empty space" this "e" is
- 4 . . . * . . . . . j . O . h . i f . . | *unreasonable* !!!
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . + . g . . . . . | "e" should be only at "f" !!
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | "h, i, f" *or* "g, i, e"
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | are optimal and reasonable.
-
-
- > It seems that a stone at h involves many times greater complications than
- > a stone at g, at least with respect to timing considerations on when and
- > how to actually close the corner. With the h position, black must be
- > more careful, and (it seems) be able and willing to trade corner for
- > big side moyo in case white invades too early. If black isn't careful,
- > though, white invades and "pffffffft" anyone depending on that corner
- > for life had better _watch out_.
-
- Yes, the high placement of "h" actually compromises the connectivity to
- "j" because "O" is an inviting position for White's invasion and an
- inefficient connecting maneuver for Black ( at "+" ). Sorry that this
- diagram is getting filled up -- trying to compress several discussions onto
- one map. From Black's view, the ( h, i, f ) triad is more advantageously
- connected to the 10,4 at right middle than at "j." From White's view the
- efficient invasion at "O" is more "delectable" than invading from the
- middle right side. (Unless you know the tesuji that I indicated today.)
- When White learns that you know this tesuji, White will revert to the
- invasion from the right middle side, playing to reduce Black's efficient
- maneuvers rather than attempting to give Black some kind of hellfire and
- damnation. From White's perspective it is "sub-optimal" to reduce Black's
- efficient maneuvers, as compared to giving Black horrible nightmares.
- Then, if Black shows White defensive capability, White must begin "backing up"
- the long-and-winding-road that separates their respective playing abilities.
-
- On the other hand, the standard ( g, i, e ) shape obscures the attempt to
- illustrate a "sharp" difference on each side of the corner (in previous
- paragraph). The ( g, i, e ) shape "softens" White's selectable options.
- Some players prefer this "softened" style over the "hard" style found among
- some of the amateur dans. GO is sufficiently complex to admit a plethora
- of approaches and techniques. Or, rather, the idea of a "style" or
- "technique" is our imposition of an abstract concept. On the face of it,
- no "style" or "technique" can be described. (Have you read _Musashi_ by
- Eiji Yoshikawa? I see now that this book is in paperback volumes.)
-
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Securing the corner in sente:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . D c e . . . . | After Black a, c, e &
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . F . O a . . . . | White B, D, F ,
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . . . B . * . . . | the upper-right corner is
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | almost secure.
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black "g" finishes it off.
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . O . O * . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . . . O . * . . . | Where would White attempt
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | an invasion of the upper
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . | right corner ?
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
- >Does that really work? I had never seen this variation mentioned. Does
- >white really need to connect at F? Probably it isn't mentioned in handicap
- >go book (poor English, sorry) I am reading is because one goal stated is tl'
- >to leave white unsettled at the end of sequences.
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . F . O * . . . . | Black trades White's settled
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . . . O . * . . . | shape for a secured corner.
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . . | "g" is unnecessary, but is a
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | prudent move.
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- >This makes it harder to make white heavy and
- >attack later. Also, the sequence is not sente, right? because black needs
- >to play "g" to finish it off.
-
- Yes, this strategy does not follow the "attack white" method. It is a
- territorial gambit, not an influence gambit.
- Black at "g" is simply an advisably strong move.
-
-
-
- If White substitutes "F" on the fourth line, the result is unbearable.
- Either: (Black is lower-case ).
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . H . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . g O * * . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . i J O * . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * k F . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- Or:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . i . . . . . . | Again, unbearable for White.
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . k g O * * . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . H J O * . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . F . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | If white connects 3 stones:
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | < -- now this 7,7 is
- 6 . . . . . . O * * . . . . . . . . . . | a "ladder-breaker" against
- 5 . . . . . . O * O O . . . . . . . . . | a Black ladder gambit.
- 4 . . . * . * * O * * O . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . * O O * * . . . . . . . . . | I don't need to tell you
- 2 . . . . * O O O O * . . . . . . . . . | the sequence.
- 1 . . . . . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . | Next, White's move,
- but White is caught.
-
- > I also looked at the tesuji you showed me today. It got pretty complicated
- > when white descended (the alternative you said would result in white being
- > captured in race to capture) and then made a kiema descent to the edge. I
- > have to look at it some more to get the feel of what's going on. I think
- > the sequences involve black playing squeeze sacrifice of one or two stones.
-
-
- Yes, if White wants to pursue it, White connects three vertical stones in
- the center forcing Black to move right (gaining liberties). Black can get
- four liberties (though I think 3 is all Black needs) for the outside Black
- fragment, then start in on the lower White piece. (The two descended
- stones then have only 2 liberties and are sufficiently close to the the
- edge to be trapped by a loose ladder.)
-
-
-
- Else:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . i . . . . . . | Again, unbearable for White.
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . k g O * * . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . H J O * . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . F . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | If White makes the 'keima'
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | descent:
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . | < -- now this 7,7 is
- 6 . . . . . . . * . t . . . . . . . . . | a "ladder-breaker" against
- 5 . . . . . . O * O . . . . . . . . . . | a Black ladder gambit.
- 4 . . . * . * * O * * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . O O * . . . . . . . . . | White lives underneath,
- 2 . . . . . . . O * O . . . . . . . . . | capturing 1 Black stone.
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black finishes with geta "t" .
- Great for Black !!
-
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
-
-
-
- >From hale@scam.Berkeley.EDU Wed Dec 6 17:21:36 1989
-
- Hi Jeff,
-
-
- Move 1 by Black
- a b c d e f g h j k l m n o p q r s t
- +---------------------------------------+
- 19| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |19
- 18| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |18
- 17| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |17
- 16| . . . @ . . O . . @ . . . . . @ . . . |16
- 15| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |15
- 14| . . . @ . . . . . A . . . . . @ . . . |14
- 13| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |13
- 12| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |12
- 11| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |11
- |...
- +---------------------------------------+
- a b c d e f g h j k l m n o p q r s t
- Consider black one at 'k14' the next time Suzuki Sensei plays the high
- capping move. It should give him a surprise if played correctly.
-
-
-
-
- Sincerely,
-
- Author of "FMGT"
-
-
- > Remember the scene in Lawrence of Arabia where the Arab soldier of fortune
- > looks down upon the retreating Turks, raises his sword and shouts,
- > "No prisoners!" ? I felt the same determination from Sensei last night.
-
- > I had a bad feeling about the outcome of the game after the 3rd move,
- > when Sensei hit me with something new. I gave up the corner for
- > influence, but then continued very poorly. After 20 moves or so the
- > komi had disappeared!
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Beginning with White 1 :
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . 5 + . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . 7 . * . . 1 . . * . . . . . * . . . | Should not ignore White 3 :
- 15 . 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . 8 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black at 4 forms a weakened
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | wall, remember? How to stop
- 12 . . ~ 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | the third line? 4 at "~" !
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | Black 4 could have been at 7.
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | After White gets 5, then it's
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | no good to attack with 6 !!
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black 6 should divide White
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | 5 from White 1 at "+" but
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | it's already feeling too late!
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | It's not a difficult problem
- to stop the progress of White
- along the left middle side.
-
-
- Starting with White at 1 :
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
- 17 . . O 7 . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 4 . . | <-- > I should've ignored 1 and
- 16 . O . * . . O . . * . . 1 . . * . . . | > played 7 for myself on 2?
- 15 . O * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Comments above.
- 14 . * . * . 9 8 . . + . . . . . 2 . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | White 7 is just too huge.
- 12 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black is *miserable* !!!
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | <-- > 8 is awful.
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black 8 could be at "+"
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | I just don't know what to say,
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Kurt. More than a few times,
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . | we've all blown openings with
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Sensei and had to start again.
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
- Who is next? White or Black ?
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . |
- 17 . . O O . O O . . . . . . . O O * . . |
- 16 . O . * . . O . . * . . O . . * . . . |
- 15 . O * . * * O . O . . * . . . . . . . | <--- > 7 is awful, too. I almost
- 14 . * . * . O * * * . . . . . . * . . . | > played at '8'.
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- White moves at 1 ? Oh, yes, I see by your comments . . .
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . |
- 17 . . O O . O O . . . . . . . O O * . . |
- 16 . O . * . . O . . * . . O . . * . . . |
- 15 . O * . * * O . O 1 3 * . . . . . . . |
- 14 . * . * . O * * * 2 5 4 . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . 6 a . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
-
- So it looked like:
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . |
- 17 . . O O . O O . . . . . . . O O * . . |
- 16 . O . * . . O . . * . . O . . * . . . |
- 15 . O * . * * O . O O O * . . . . . . . |
- 14 . * . * . O * * * * O * . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . * O a . . . . . . | At this point, Black can't
- 12 . . . * . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . | defend the two stones *and*
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | the center position.
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | As White got center influence,
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | the rest of the board is
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | collapsing too.
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
- > Without my game score and given the press of time here at work this
- > is all I can remember. Maybe I'll have time tonight or tomorrow to
- > email the rest of the game. It was short (~160 moves or so). Quick
- > synopsis:
-
-
-
- > I built an outer wall. Sensei cut at a, and I thought I could catch
- > a bunch of white stones. Or at least get territory while attacking
- > them. But Sensei was too smart. He started activities in the lower
- > left. I badly misplayed (Sensei says I was greedy) and lost the corner.
- > He then had a weak group to attack, which he did very nicely, but I
- > managed to connect to the center group fairly easily. This resulted
- > in the formation of a black wall running up the center of the board,
- > so once again the white group on the right side was in danger. I totally
- > messed up on this "attack", too. Sensei invaded the lower right
- > (invaded the "ideal" shape you told me was still suspiciously ko-taste!)
- > and again I got "greedy" and continued to press the white group, which was
- > by now quite large and without eyes. I thought I could kill the corner,
- > but instead it LIVED!! and then I had no eyes! Once again, I was "greedy."
-
- Your account reminds me of a friend whose mind rides on a roller-coaster,
- who likes detective fiction. Sensei is simply *not* going to present you
- with "erroneous" play. If you think that he's doing something rather *weird*
- you ought to take another look. All of his games, to my mind, have been
- extraordinarily beautiful. That's the closest adjective I can think of.
-
- I don't know if an analysis of the game record would be pertinent here,
- because the first 10 moves were atrocious !!! (I won't say whose.)
- Each time White gets a foothold, White can prepare something else !!!
- It should be a chore to *get life* in GO, but Black handed White life *and*
- territory *and* connections all at once !!!
-
-
-
-
- > Anyway, I think Sensei avenged his previous loss!
-
- He's expecting *you* to keep track of these things. Mr. Suzuki plays, on
- average, about 50 lesson games per week.
-
-
-
-
- > Thanks for asking about the "high cap." Who is that masked go teacher?
- > I'll take a look at the one-point contact extension from 10,4 to the
- > capping stone. Does this imply that the extra high cap _is_ an overplay?
- > Or do I still not understand that term?
-
- I have my suspicions that "My GO Teacher" would rather remain anonymous
- so as not to present a *presumptuous* or *authoritative* tone to the Internet
- GO community. However, in Berkeley we are quite cognizant of a player by
- the name of Ned Phipps, and it is likely that he and "My GO Teacher" are
- one and the same.
-
- Mr. Suzuki's playing style is amazingly resilient (like the "super-ball"
- that keeps on bouncing), and neither Phil Strauss, 2-dan nor Ned Phipps, 6-dan
- can anticipate what Sensei can pull out of his hat. (Recall that Mr. Suzuki
- used to keep rabbits when he stayed at the Buddhist monastery in Hokkaido
- with his grandfather.)
-
- -------------------------------------------------- cut here for emacs ed --
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . h G I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | After White at "C" try Black "d"
- 16 . d E * . . A . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . C f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | If White tries "E" Black can
- 14 . j . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | obtain the diagram.
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Satisfactory for Black.)
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 ------------------------------------- |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . * . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Looking like this:
- 5 . O * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Mirror reflected )
- 4 . * O * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . * O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . I h l . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | If White plays "E" here,
- 16 K d G * . . A . . * . . . . . * . . . | Black can form a nice dividing
- 15 . C E f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | wall, connecting towards the
- 14 . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | center.
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | The sequence is forced.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 --------------------------------------| (Satisfactory for Black.)
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | '-' indicates captured Black
- 7 . x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * . . x . . . . . . . . . . . . | Looking like this:
- 5 . O O * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Mirror reflected )
- 4 O - O * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . O * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | "x" points are miai .
- 2 . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black's next move.
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Satisfactory for Black.)
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Alternatively, Black can take
- 16 . d f * I l A . . * . . . . . * . . . | territory in the corner.
- 15 . C E G h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . b K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | This is not to suggest that
- 12 . . M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | White would immediately
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | play this way, but that
- 10 ------------------------------------- | Black has some contingency
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | plan if White tries something.
- 8 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . * O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | '-' indicates captured White
- 5 . O O O * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . * * * - * O . . * . . . . . * . . . | Looking like this:
- 3 . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | (Mirror reflected )
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Black's next move.
-
-
- ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
- >I have two disagreements with your last mail.
-
- OK -- This has to be hashed out. The discussion isn't a win/lose argument.
- It's to be a Herculean "clean the Agean stables" process.
-
-
-
- If there is a common propensity for both GO *and* mathematics then it is
- relevant to consider the analogy to mathematical training. I think that
- mathematics deserves considerably more respect than GO, as a subject, but
- this does not necessarily imply (to me) that a mathematician deserves more
- respect than a professional GO player. I am convinced that there is more
- rarity on finding competent GO players than finding competent mathematicians.
- Anyway, I accept the metaphor; there is a link between learning GO and
- learning mathematics ...
-
- The GO "rating system" has some relativism to it, but the Nihon Ki-In has
- also developed some standard criteria for assessing playing levels. Certain
- problems are posed for solution in examination books and points awarded for
- finding the "correct" continuation from a position. At the end of such an
- examination of GO problems, a table awards the estimation of an absolute rank
- to the examinee. So, it really is possible based on the standard criteria
- of the solutions to GO problems, to assess "absolute" ranking. Mr. Suzuki
- is a walking "GO book" in this regard, as his overplay *gambling* is tuned
- to adjust to the student's current playing ability. They may tell you that
- you are "12-kyu" at a GO club because you blew a few games for other reasons.
- The fact stands, however, that if you recognize the snap-back, you are
- above "12-kyu." The snap-back test is the "12-kyu" ability criteria. Anyway,
- it is not so easy to characterize mathematics as "absolute" and a game of GO
- as "relative."
-
-
-
-
- > White moves first and he can obviously capture
- > _at least_ two corners entirely. It takes one stone at 3,3 for black to
- > absolutely secure a corner, and two stones otherwise.
-
- This is not quite true. "Security" (and territory/influence) are matters
- of degree. The equation is most accurately understood as a certain number
- of moves producing a certain amount of territory (score) at the game's end.
- The efficient measure of the territory/stones is a close approximation to
- what is meant by the "rating." Space is *not* either "secured" or "unsecured."
- Only absolute 2-eyed life is "secured space;" there is progression towards
- the space definition in the course of the game, as either being "secured"
- or "unsecured." This space definition is *unclear* at the outset.
-
-
- > Naturally white
- > does _not_ invade the corner. That is because on balance black gains too
- > much influence, or rather white gets too little territory to counter this
- > influence, if white "rapes" black's women too early in the campaign.
-
- White will rape the Black women if Black offers no objections. It is a
- calculation similar to the consideration as to the consequences of killing
- or not killing a potentially dead group.
-
-
-
-
- > (As an aside I note that both the handicap go book by Kagemiya (sp?) and
- > the 38 basic joseki book indicate that the diagonal extension to 5,5 from
- > 4,4 is an excellent response to a double kakari by white.
-
- Yes, this is perhaps *more* excellent than the extension from 3,3 to 4,4
- that we talked about earlier. 4,4 to 5,5 is probably one of the best places
- on the board to install a diagonal extension.
-
-
- > In this way
- > black "sacrifices" his corner for influence.
-
- Black doesn't throw away the entire corner. Black hopes for gaining access
- to one side or the other leading out of the corner.
-
-
-
- > In one sample game black
- > allowed the double kakari in a 4 stone handicap game to run around the
- > board and take the big star points at 10,4 for "fast development.")
-
- Yes. I can agree with this technique. Generally, it should not be used
- for more than one corner.
-
-
-
-
-
- > Have you looked at the one-point extension from the 10,4 stone in reply to
- > the two-space white cap at 10,7?
-
- The question is too general to answer because this maneuver is not a
- corner joseki.
-
- (Say) White moves at "A"...
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . j I . . . . . E . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . h G . . O . . f . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * K . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . M l . . . . d . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . A * b . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . C . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
- Yields: ( with Black to move )
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . * O . . . . . O . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . * O . . O . . * . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * O . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . O * . . . . * . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . O * * . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- So, I can't say that White is in bad shape. Did you consider another
- variation?
-
-
-
-
- > It is very interesting! The
- > contact play tends to strengthen black's side stones, and one of white's
- > groups. (There are 3 stones which can be divided into three white groups,
- > but I _think_ white will keep two stones connected to get two groups instead).
- > But, it appears as if black can get good shape for the side stones, and then
- > attack the weaker of the white groups. In any case, it _appears_ to me
- > that the black side group is getting out to the center very very quickly,
- > and white will get no territory on the side.
-
- Could you please send me a diagram?
-
-
-
- > Of course, in my analysis I am playing _my_ white strategy against _my_
- > 9 stone black strategy. Guess who keeps coming out on top? :-)
-
- Yes, in order to "play" Black you must *also* "play" out the White side.
- Don't let yourself become *surprised* !!! (Drive defensively.)
-
-
- >Yes, this may be true. But I must protest against submissiveness in play
- >with 9 stones. What you recommend is playing the player, not the game.
-
-
- By "submissiveness," I mean "submission" to advice concerning the agreed-upon
- general principles of GO. I think that by an initiation of an agreed-upon
- list of general GO principles, we can at least examine certain methodological
- assumptions we are making, in the explicit sense. This is "science."
- If there is some disagreement concerning what these general principles *are*
- then we might elaborate upon this discussion, with Mr. Suzuki's comments.
-
-
-
- >Certainly Sensei is overpowering. But I have lost three games in a row
- >prior to the last debacle. In none of those three games did I lose armies.
- >I simply lost the entire center. And the sides where the 10,4 stones were
- >left to wither. How can giving away so much influence be correct?
-
- It is not quite right to say that one should completely ignore the 10,4 points.
- Though we've tried to be precise about this, both the nature of the game and
- our own approximate attempts at description have been inadequate. Such
- inadequacy is inherent, perhaps, in the nature of language. GO is its own
- language, so we should be using GO to explain GO. And, GO may underwrite
- other human languages (in the grammatical, syntactical "schoolmarmish" sense).
- Let me back up. GO is essentially "ecclectic." No simple singleminded strategy
- suffices to capture the quality of GO. The failure of computer programs to
- accomplish this aim, to date, is testimony to our incapacity and inability to
- present an effective procedure for playing GO. Now, when Mr. Suzuki presents
- for us a "GO principle" he attaches some measure of "certainty" to it. I
- don't know how one might calculate this measure of "certainty." Is it from
- completely random situations or by general experience in an examination only
- of the GO problems that may arise? Perhaps the measure of "certainty" is a
- misnomer and must instead be called: " 100% - 'measure of uncertainty.'"
-
- Another difficulty in understanding Mr. Suzuki's counsel concerning the 10,4
- points arises from the obvious observation that White seems to be playing
- in a manner which is 'using' the 10,4 points!!! If White can do this then
- why not Black? This kind of "symmetry" thinking is rather Chesslike: if
- White has a castle-move then Black must have a castle-move option too. This
- sounds fair, at least. Why does GO sound unfair? We have to back up again
- in our philosophical premises. In history, GO was first, not Chess. So,
- doesn't it make sense to back up and start with the chronological development?
-
- Niels Bohr spoke of a "principle of complementarity." Now this principle has
- been more or less expressed in a number of scientific and pseudo-scientific
- treatises devoted to delivery of an account of 20th century science. I have
- spoken with some people who claim that this "principle of complementarity" is
- total hogwash (the phd mathematician from Colorado who is an amateur 4-dan).
- On the other hand, I have heard others speak most eloquently on topics that
- seemed to share some sort of attachment to this "principle of complementarity"
- idea. What is it?
-
- In popular books like "The Tao of Science," the "principle of complementarity"
- is compared to a yin-yang symbol. In the made-for-TV Kung-Fu movies we can
- see this yin-yang symbol drawn in connection to the martial arts discipline
- and the prevailing philosophy of liberation. Well, I must say that the
- yin-yang symbol is not well-understood: it's manner of drawing does not
- adequately express what a yin-yang symbol means. We think of using white
- paint and black paint and then forming two fish in a "69" position. So what?
- This is *not* what yin-yang is. A more explicit notion is provided by the
- idea of drawing only one-half of the yin-yang symbol and leaving the other
- half *undrawn*!! It is the edge of existence and non-existence. But,
- non-existence *doesn't* exist!! If it *doesn't* exist, what is it? This
- is the idea of yin-yang; one part of it we see and perceive and the other
- part (which is "complementary") we do *not* see and perceive. This was the
- great revelation of quantum mechanics. Position and momentum could *not*
- be simultaneously measured. They are operators that do *not* "commute."
- But, they are "complementary" notions in that our knowledge of one precludes
- knowledge of the other. Heisenberg termed this relationship an "uncertainty."
- Even the "complete and total knowledge" of either position or momentum must
- have an error at least that of Planck's constant. What is termed such
- "complete and total knowledge" is neither complete nor total !!!
-
- I don't intend to confuse the issue with a sideways discussion of quantum
- mechanics. In my case, the learning of GO did not proceed according to
- a straightforward route. I found readings in philosophy, law and physics
- quite valuable in a formulation of general principles I might apply to a
- cybernetic program. I cannot say that this route is necessarily relevant
- or helpful to another person with dissimilar aims.
-
- GO is not going to "submit" to us in the sense that we can destroy its inherent
- flexible nature as we have done with Chess through an analysis of Chess
- openings and "Deep Thought" programs. If we are going to find harmony with
- this game, it is rather *us* who will "submit" to the mental structure of GO.
-
- Regards 10,4: White and Black are conducting a sort of cosmic "dance"
- about each other. This dance may at times have parries, thrusts, avoiding
- maneuvers, independent objectives, bargaining, gambles, negotiations, ploys,
- experiments, probes, consolidations, abstract linkings, Cheshire cat smiles,
- severities, reason and unreason, all rolled into the game. Let's say that
- there are two mining companies each with the aim of extracting ore from a
- mountain. Each mining company is in a sense in "competition" with the
- other mining company. But the basic economics of their mining consists of
- independent tunnels and shafts. If, in their tunneling, they intersect
- each other in the mountain then some sort of trade agreements and/or traffic
- proprieties have to be worked out at that node or junction. Perhaps they
- may instead decide to simply put the tunnel wall(s) back into place. Let's
- say one mining company decides to sabotage another mining company in the
- hopes of increasing profits. (This would be "illegal.") In order to be
- brought to justice, a lawsuit must identify the culprit(s), accumulate
- admissible evidence for the prosecutor, conduct a fair trial in the manner
- demanded by law, according to a "rational" standard. (Yet again, the
- Real is *not* the "Rational.") It is hoped that radical "rationality" will
- serve to administer the objective of 'fair play.' But 'fair play' is not
- necessarily what "reality" is all about.
-
- If both mining companies engage in a "fight" (which may be provoked by one
- side or the other), they may both lose in the real world of triage economics.
- He who responds to the "fight" is entitled to choose the direction of play.
- This is the basic point of a martial art like "aikido" (remember that GO is
- also called "kido"). The opponent's "energy" (psychological propensities)
- are turned about and used to his/her disadvantage by the aikido master.
- The opponent is, in a sense, *blind* to such psychological propensities,
- because if they were known by the self in deep realization then the fight
- would not have been started in the first place. But the aikido master is
- *responding* to the initiation of an unsuitable "fight." OK -- how else
- in the martial arts academy are the trainees going to train? They need
- some kind of "drill instructor" and perhaps even some experience with
- real world "combat." However, having provided all of this the basic point
- remains: It is better not to fight; our fighting skill teaches us this!
-
- The event is similar to a doctrine of "karma." The "burning off of karma"
- is the basic story of "what the hell is happening" (basic question of science).
- Eventually one rids oneself of all karma and attains liberation. One goes
- through the life experiences (perhaps imagining that this is the "first"
- time) until there is some intimation of a "wheel-of-life" and that there
- is a tendency to utilize the same familiar patterns on this merry-go-round
- until one eventually gets tired of that particular circus ride. The cycles
- of hope and despair, optimism and pessimism, are given a good thrashing on
- this "wheel-of-life." The basic question of "guilt" or "shame" or the
- agendas and motives that drive people to achievement (or over-achievement)
- is at issue here (addressing the nature of this 'mission'). Why would one
- want to watch TV reruns? Why would the Negro slaves of the 1830 American
- south *want* to reproduce? Isn't the condition of "slavery" so intolerable
- that free human beings would, in all good conscience, go on a biology strike?
-
- We see recurrent phenomena in mass culture. A large number of individuals
- all grow to maturity in a particular religious or philosophical "system"
- without much self-awareness of the "edge" of its existence in the world.
- (Take, for example, the so-called Jesus people who live out the Christian
- crucifixion drama each easter and incorporate such pagan celebrations as the
- commercial "Christmas" into the annual rite(s) of the officious Church.)
- As Soren Kierkegaard pointed out, many of these Christians live out a
- certain notion of "Christendom" (concept of being "born into" the faith),
- quite popular in Denmark's "State Religion." One can be born a Jew, but
- not be born a Christian, according to Mr. Kierkegaard. Christianity is
- a matter of an individual's conscious "choice" to subscribe to the "belief"
- in the Gospel's account of salvation. To be "born into" Christianity is
- to deny that any "choice" concerning Christian salvation is a prerequisite.
-
- One cannot "see" the system *within* the boundaries and constraints of
- that system. Jesus and other religious mystics spent long periods of time
- in the wilderness. A "prophet" was one whose voice cried from the wilderness.
- Today's Christian cannot generally point to long periods of experience in
- the wilderness (partly due to a disappearing wilderness), so it is doubtful
- that they can understand the basic meaning of Christianity. They are just
- dupes of a "system" without seeing how that "system" has an "edge" and
- certain boundaries and constraints. This happens to be a sore point with me.
- Many people want to proclaim some Christian message but they have never
- analyzed their "system" by going to the wilderness to get an overview of it.
- Jesus did not do any missionary preaching before he had spent the 40 days
- and 40 nights in the wilderness, conquering Satan's temptations.
-
- 10,4: So, is this 4 * 10 = 40 ? Is the 10,4 a "wilderness" point?
-
- Ought one be in a hurry to proclaim the "wilderness experience" necessary
- for prophecy and preaching?
-
-
-
- >One thing which comes up again and again in reading about handicap go, and
- >in talking with 2 dans: use the star points for influence, and forget the
- >territory. To talk about securing corners with the handicap stone is contrary
- >to what books and better judgement dictate. Really, isn't it a matter of
- >timing? Close the corner too soon and be inefficient. Close it too late
- >and get heavy groups. Isn't it true that black is most happy to reply to
- >premature invasions on 3,3? That is why Mr. Suzuki holds such invasions back
- >until the late part of the game, no?
-
- Well, this is "complementarity" too. However, "influence" means an expectation
- of future territory, right? We ought to be able to measure "influence" by
- this definition, so, when you trade territory for influence how much territory
- are you trading and how much of a future territorial expectation do you
- actually realize? If you cannot accurately assess these calculations, I think
- that you are not prepared to trade off your certain territory for an uncertain
- "influence" (promise? of expected future territory).
-
- This is similar to the advice a programmer might give to his/her computer
- program which wants to investigate GO. Let's say that the computer calculation
- has a great deal of difficulty assuring itself of the "influence/territory"
- tradeoff. Consider also the opponent player: this *is* also the "game." !!!
- Against a strong opponent such "influence" is likely to be pissed away into
- nothing. Against a weak opponent the "influence" may be more likely realized.
- 2-dans are likely to tell you that the 4,4 are already "influencing" the
- center (as I mentioned --- they are "outside" the 3.86/3.86 position). But,
- the "level of complexity" has increased by this manner of thinking. The
- available "influence" must as well also be some function of the player's
- capacity to discover latent combinative plays. If we are honest in providing
- the computer program with an estimate of the player's discovery capacity
- which must factor into this estimation of the "influence/territory" tradeoff,
- then we cannot at the same time suddenly expect that the player's average
- estimated rated capacity to perceive and discover is going to change only
- for the purposes of one particular hopeful game. (Maybe I didn't say that
- very clearly.) Let's say Individual A has a rating of W-kyu. The computer
- program is going to decide its "influence/territory" tradeoff point on this
- basis: Computer Program B has a rating of Z-kyu. (Assuming "absolutism.")
- Now the computer will use for its calculations its own estimated "discovery"
- capacity of Z-kyu against Individual A's estimated "discovery" capacity of
- W-kyu, right? Then it can attempt to determine where the tradeoff/breakoff
- point is between certain "territory" and uncertain "influence." If that
- influence cannot at some point be convertible into "territory" it is *not*
- influence !!! I think one has to be a dan-player to use the 4,4 stones as
- center "influence." (We are compiling a list of definitions of kyu & dan.)
- A dan player "sees" the entire board. A dan player recalls the entire game.
-
- You're going to object: but this thinking is not playing the *game*!!
- Well, is there really a "game?" I ask this seriously. Nobody, human or
- computer, can look-ahead to the end of a GO game . . .
-
-
-
- >I am mindful of being willful or arrogant. Also, I was concerned that Sensei
- >would be irritated if I did not "learn" my lessons. But what lesson should
- >I learn when:
- > a) books say attack and play for influence, allow territory to accumulate
- > as a result of pressing heavy groups,
- > b) books say keep white separated, and move out into the center,
- > c) Sensei (and you) say to ignore the 10,4 points - the primary stones
- > used in a) and b) for keeping white separated, usually by flinging
- > the 10,4 point towards the 10,10 point and beyond.
- > d) 3 games in a row I ignore the 10,4 point, only to be pushed out of
- > the center, to yield too much influence.
-
- (a) If the book is training a "dan" player, the dan player needs to develop a
- refined sense of "influence" playing.
- (b) This is correct, but you *began* in the center (on 25 Nov. 1989), and
- got corralled all the way across the board to the topside.
- The phrase "move out" (into the center) means begin *from* the corners
- and "move out" along the sides and "move out" into the center. To
- "move out" you have to stay connected to your life shapes.
- (c) I don't recall using the phrase "flinging the 10,4 point towards 10,10."
- I think this is an indication of your frustration. Please relax.
- Let me put it this way. GO has a strong "asymmetric" character.
- This means that if you are *able* to accomplish something, you
- must look for that other thing that you could not accomplish. Also, if you are being pressed on one side, there ought to be some
- suitable compensation somewhere *else* !!! If you were able to
- accomplish something you must *give up* that which you cannot
- accomplish. Trying to accomplish everything is unreasonable and
- greedy. Trying for everything will lead to a loss. Trying for
- a carefully measurable *compromise* will give you winning chances.
- I.E. only "chances."
-
- You might be *able* to save (say) one or two of your 10,4 points
- *after* you have secured your base in the coveted "easy to secure"
- corners that everybody wants. It is unreasonable, however, to
- try to save *all* of your handicaps against a professional player.
- If you had *less* handicaps, then you could work *from* all of
- them. But, when you have 9-handicaps *and* 60 - 65 point komi
- playing conditions, the statement for the cosmic universe is this:
- A great disparity exists, so some of these handicaps must be lost
- in the process. (I *know* that this sounds 'counterintuitive.')
- If we give these parameters to the computer, we come up with a
- great disparity in the "discovery of combination" capacity which
- factors into the calculation for the "territory/influence" tradeoff.
- The computer is saying that in this disparity case, Black's optimal
- policy is to let go of uncertain areas of the board and keep certain
- territory consolidated. It has nothing to do with anyone's
- personality or philosophy. It is simply the counsel provided
- under the definition of these playing conditions. The most
- "uncertain" regions on the GO board are at 10,4 and then 10,10.
- If you play from the standpoint of "certainty" (applied GO
- principles) no one can defeat you. But, if you are choosing a
- Charlie Brown wishy-washy method your opponent will ferret out
- the vulnerabilities that flatten your game like spaghetti thrown
- against a wall. When, through experience, your kyu-ranking
- changes (catch-22) and you win games, then the computer is going
- to say that the "territory/influence" tradeoff point has changed
- to accommodate a different kyu-factor in the formula. Your
- improved discovery capacity will consider taking just a little
- bit more of the "uncertain" territory points *as-well-as* the
- certain territory points that you have in the past taken and
- will continue to pay considerable attention to, in the future.
-
- Kurt, you must be patient with your perceptual perspicacity.
- Knowledge, if it is worth anything, was not obtained without a
- great deal of work. We value a "work" of art partly on the
- grounds that a great deal of "work" went into its creation. If
- the "art" was easily mass-produced without much "work," its
- corresponding value (and rarity) is decreased.
-
- In the process of learning, you may have encountered new advice
- and concepts that initially sounded strange to you. This
- strangeness led you psychologically to abandon your *old*
- knowledge, and you felt yourself wandering far afield into
- strange and unfamiliar realms. Having made these initial steps
- of temerity you will once again recapture the history and
- traditionalism present in GO. Think of the clans and tribes.
- Think of Baroque music. Think of Church architecture. Think
- of the sound of a flute or the whistle of the wind in the leaves.
- GO is natural, but modern man in his unnatural "civilization" has
- lost touch with the instinctual predatory nature. We are given
- so many "societal rules and regulations" that we cannot behave
- freely and spontaneously, at abandon. In order to obtain that
- freedom within the restrictive quality of what we mean by the
- "work" that goes into art, one must "submit" to the writing
- conventions and technical standards. One salutes the flag.
- One would not burn the flag anymore than burn $100 bills.
-
- (d) Ignoring the 10,4 point does not mean relying upon your 10,10 point.
- The diagram goes (and has always gone) generally like this:
- 4,4 points are "coveted." Then, not having 4,4 points one
- wants 10,4 points (and 10,10). Because White hasn't the 4,4
- positions, White is relegated to the task of taking the 10,4
- and 10,10 positions. You are jealous because White seems
- to have "center stage" while Black is 'pushed' into corners.
- But, the game is just decided by *total* territory, not who
- seems to have the largest group in existence. You don't
- believe me? Four moderately sized groups are larger than
- one 'sort-of' big White group. Black can produce the moderate
- groups and keep pushing White's center into smaller portions.
- You have the Suzuki-Wahl game there on video tape. So, how
- did David Wahl take the 9-stones, yet lose by only 10 points?
-
- Be wary of the 'macho-mania' tendency to want to prematurely
- prove other people wrong. It may *seem* to us that Mr. Suzuki
- is wrong about a lot of other things, but at GO nobody can
- say he is absolutely *wrong* when he is winning the games.
- The crazy and bizarre (Zen-like) comments he offers regarding
- stone strategies, shapes, tactics, tesuji, sneaky, stinky
- sorts of plots, agendas, fish hatcheries, etc., might make
- for a horror-story in real life, but they are GO nonetheless.
- GO is not life, it is a sideways dimension to life, like the
- square-root of (-1).
-
-
- >So there are two modes of thought: what is the correct plan of play when
- >9 dan meets 9 dan, and what is the correct plan of play when 10 kyu meets
- >3 dan.
-
- Well, yes, you have it. (I sense this is an unsatisfactory conclusion for
- you.) I'm an egalitarian person, basically, so this type of "privileged"
- thinking has me rather bothered, also. GO is difficult enough without making it
- more complicated with these *Poker* concepts, right? Or, did I expect to
- be learning a game that was strictly a matter of skill without any appeal
- to the "luck" of the draw or the "bounce" of the dice? Perhaps GO is more
- like a Backgammon-type psychology. To know one's proper place in the scheme
- of things at space-time location xyzw is all one can ask for. Think of
- something like 5-D, 3-coordinates for space, 1 for time, and 1 for GO rating.
- Then we have xyzxq. What somebody says to you on 25 Nov. 1989 about your
- game and its rating may not be continuously mapped to what is going to be
- said to you at another time in another location about your game and its rating.
-
-
- >I read (somewhere) that beginner players that never lose corners are playing
- >too passively. The idea I think is that in order to squeeze potential out
- >of positions one must sometimes play on the edge. A rank beginner as I am
- >am not well enough practiced or aware of the boundaries of safety and the
- >abyss. How do I judge where this boundary is? Where is my base of experience?
-
- Yes, consider that we are talking about advice to *beginners* who want to
- move up from 5-kyu to 2-kyu, OK? You can follow this advice when you become
- 5-kyu. The question is: what sort of advice are you going to follow to
- get promoted from 9-kyu to 6-kyu? You are *losing* your games at present.
- So, how are you going to turn the situation around? You aren't going to
- suddenly jump from 9-kyu to 2-kyu without going through 6 & 5 kyu, OK?
- You need some intermediary advice to get your basic game workable. The
- most difficult problem in GO is to get the basic game workable. From a
- basic game you can consider alternatives. A 'basic game' is that game
- which provides you with a win under the defined playing conditions.
-
- When I study what White does to Black's position I may see things that you
- don't notice at that time, nor upon a review of the video tape. I am watching
- how Sensei sets up sequence because I know from my own experience at looking
- at a GO position that White considers many sente possibilities and then tries
- to make a determination of what order of play to put them in. Depending on
- Black's manner of reply or indication of intent, White must modify these
- sequences of sente possibilities. When White detects that Black is feeling
- "under the gun" of life/death anxiety, White may exploit this Black anxiety
- without mercy. Black becomes attached to saving a position in *gote* and
- White obtains some extra sente move to continue the ongoing attack. When
- White can direct the course of play throughout the entire game you can
- be certain that White has chosen the optimal path for White. I included
- many of these comments on the writeup that Mr. John Shinn is mailing to
- you along with the video tape. There are timing marks from the camera
- which precisely identify the exact moment in the game where the coordinates
- refer. Mr. Shinn tells me that Mr. Harris has retrieved his camera, so I
- don't know what the status will be for your upcoming match.
-
- Black must not allow himself to be threatened "under the gun" of a life/death
- anxiety situation. Either the stones must be sacrificed ASAP to engage in
- a *practical* furikawari (exchange), or small life must be quickly made,
- if possible in sente. Now, why make small life just a little bit larger
- in the early game with so many open places on the map? In the 25 Nov. 1989
- game, you spent two or three unnecessary moves in the lower-right corner
- (terminal orientation), when this corner was going to live already. These
- early moves had to be more effectively scattered around the board. The
- early game is *so* important!!! The early game is the only opportunity
- each player has for setting out the Constitutional Charter for the rest
- of the "trivial pursuit" details.
-
-
-
- >I have two sources of experience: go club and Sensei. When an experiment
- >works at the go club against a 2-dan, how can I tell if the play was correct
- >or the counter by white was incorrect? _this is an important point_. With
- >just two sources of data points and no pre-existing experience I have difficulty.
-
- Yes, this is the problem. We all have our pet theories and experiments that
- *seem* to work against peers and weaker dans but don't work against Sensei.
- The same was said, I recall, about Bobby Fischer. Bobby had a way of making
- the usual Chess strategies inoperative, said the commentaries. Bobby's plays
- sometimes seemed to be cooked up on the spot, pulling a rabbit out of the hat,
- or bending the establishment Chess principles. It seemed that Bobby was
- revising Chess theory altogether, or rather, reminding us of how Chess ought
- to be or perhaps "used to be" in the dark recesses of man's instinctual
- psychological past. But, this is why Sensei earns a living. His game is
- stratospherically above the amateur dans, even though these dans are a
- little bit more highly "elevated" than you or I. (I use "elevated" only
- to connote a broader view, but not in the sense of what is Truthful in
- the Red River Valley.) The solution to this is simply to have these amateur
- dans play Sensei also and everybody slowly climbs the "stairway to heaven."
- (If this is heaven, and why must I ask?)
-
- If you are *aware* of a "difficulty," you are on the road to recovery. This
- is an essential step -- to be *aware* of the "difficulty." Next, you need
- to take a more detailed accounting of the "difficulties" in a GO positions.
- Does Black prefer to select a game that is more "difficult" against an
- alternate game that is "simpler?" (Recall the distinction of "difficult"
- and "simple.") A "simple" game can be controlled by the player. A
- "difficult" game is out of the player's control and thereby controlled by
- the opponent. If you estimate "territory/influence" and find two choices,
- which appear to be equivalent, will you select the "difficult" course over
- the "simple?" I hope not. What sorts of "difficulties" are envisaged by
- this course of action? What sorts of "difficulties" are encountered by
- an alternate course. Suppose we just trash that fanciful notion altogether
- and look at another part of the board? I want to do this, why? He'll want
- to do that, so what ought I do? If I play here immediately am I giving up
- a possibility to play elsewhere first and then play here later? Maybe I
- can work from the other side and make a "double-play" in defense which
- solves two problems at once?
-
-
-
-
- >My first games at the club emphasized ignoring the 10,4 stones and playing
- >for the corners, and plans to "radiate" from the corners. Ok, I was
- >successful. But only on one night. The following week these guys "adjusted"
- >and played me into the dirt. Each player who beat me with 9 stones had the
- >same critique: I was playing for territory, and small-scale violence, when
- >with 9 stones I should be thinking large-scale violence and big big territory.
-
- Well, in this case, you played the basic good game which they didn't expect.
- Then, they realized that you were applying a "formula" so they departed from
- book. All I'm saying is that in a GO school you ought to learn the book first.
- No book can prepare you for the *real* world "out there." David Carradine
- stayed at a monastery with the Kung-Fu master for awhile but the Kung-Fu
- episodes are *not* about David Carradine's life at the monastery. From time
- to time, David Carradine would flashback to his "grasshopper conversations."
- It was helpful to reflect upon the normative mentality among that crazy and
- chaotic world of the wild wild west. Too many people around him were losing
- their heads and he had to find the counterpoint of monastic repose. Knowing
- where the "book" move belongs, you can get a better idea of something that is
- slightly "out of kilter." This helps *you* identify the specific vulnerable
- points. We are learning book joseki because a slight deviation from the
- book joseki introduces a sub-optimality in territorial balance. This then,
- leads to a small point swing for the player who exploits it. These small
- point swings add up gradually into the slight advantage that wins the game.
-
- The club players are going to ask you to put up your dukes, stand-up and fight
- "like a man" (perhaps). I'm really annoyed by a few of the club players,
- because some of them developed strong fighting skill. I recognized that I
- needed to work on my game from several different pedagogical directions. I
- acquired a better ability to handle the fighters by playing a very careful
- and methodical GO. I refrained from attempting to corrall an early win.
- I did not try to kill a group when there was some doubt in my mind. I just
- play for the *ultimate territory* (a few points difference). All in all,
- however, what I played was, to my mind, "the book." Only the book wins.
- When one doesn't know certain parts of "the book," one loses. There's some
- fighting in "the book." Generally, however, the book is saying that the
- pen is mightier than the sword. (What else does one expect from a book?)
- The book was created by pens, not swords. If parts of the book were yet
- unwritten then I would have to write it in. I think this was Bobby Fischer's
- basic attitude. The book is rather extensive. Either it is incomplete, or
- we haven't comprehended what has already been written there.
-
-
-
- >Sure, I was too optimistic (simplistic, simple-minded, perhaps many other
- >pejoratives) in my last game. But I _feel_ it is wrong to allow white to
- >get 100 points of territory just so I can win with the komi. Maybe the point
- >is to win with 65 points komi, even if the resulting play is submissive.
- >Then Sensei will adjust and this kind of submissiveness will no longer be
- >adequate against, say, 30 points komi. Then I have to "unlearn" and "relearn."
- >You mentioned this concept to me earlier. This is difficult to justify.
- >How do my lessons in submissiveness with Sensei apply to no-komi games against
- >2 dans?
-
- Let's return to the variable "territory/influence" analysis (with the varying
- 'kyu-factors' in the formulas). There are combinations that a 2-dan isn't
- going to try because (s)he doesn't quite see them clearly. Sensei is willing
- to try anything and everything to the hilt because he is running the gamut
- of what is possible (or impossible) in GO. Again, it is your *feelings* that
- surface at issue here. A game in the strict sense is not about the subjective
- feelings of the players (at least not recorded by the game record). I don't
- recall using the phrase "simple-minded." Simpletons don't attempt GO. But,
- I am instead advising you to develop the "simple-mind" *for* analyzing GO.
- A complex position is less complex for the stronger player. The "categorical
- imperatives" (to borrow from I. Kant) seem to indicate what must or may be
- done from a given position. (These categories, which I am again revising
- in light of the dialogues with Mr. David Fotland of COSMOS fame, concern the
- life/death status of stones/groups and just what the heck can be done with
- them at this point, or what *needs* to happen with certain stones & groups.)
- Mr. Suzuki would think that my research is "officious." Well, I suppose that
- any computer programmer who wants to "replace" the professionals by computer
- programs is going to meet up with a lot of resistance.
-
- You seem to complain about "unlearning" and "learning" as if these are
- unbearable chores for you. I can't for certain say that GO leads or does
- not lead to one's eternal happiness. I suppose that man's brains are not
- quite as suitable to "loading" and "unloading" mentalistic paradigms as
- are high-speed digital beasts with programs. Our biophysical systems do
- not "edit" themselves or each other with as much ease as a word processor.
- Let me appeal instead to the detachment afforded by a third-party (now you)
- watching the game transpire between two other players who may or may not be
- known to you. Let's imagine that you've "retired" from GO pursuits ...
- (Is that possible?) At least, you are no longer under the compulsive
- tendency to excell, achieve, perform, etc., at GO or anything else, just
- for the moment (say in an academic sense). You see these players taking
- turns putting down black and white pieces. The evolving patterns remind
- you of your home town on Mars. It seems that the shapes want to embrace
- each other as they anchor themselves onto the pegs and spindles of the board.
- They suggest "self-organizing systems" and pieces of wispy DNA-knowledge
- strands. Perhaps it was science fiction but you couldn't be certain of that.
- Anyway, it was a *long* *time* *ago* that all of this happened on the
- Planet of the Apes. It would be nice if the outcome had some consequence
- on the upcoming political elections but this, too, is an unlikely prospect.
- Arthur Dent can't quite recall why the number 42 answered his original
- face; was that recent newspaper article composed by a sophisticated computer?
-
- "Unlearning" and "learning" are what the snap-to think-on-your-feet at-wits-end
- mindsets are all about. You can pick and choose among them as you like.
- Just like trying on hats. See, over here we have a 6-kyu helmet -- a little
- bit battered but it served the previous owner well. And, displayed in an
- ascending row along the victors of the Hall of Fame, we have some more
- impressive eco-military regalia, how about that 4-kyu helmet (uses some
- high-impact plastic instead of just styrofoam)? For the 8-kyus we have
- some swimming goggles and for the 23-kyus just one earplug. Marching right
- along, we have some stainless steel armor for the 5-dans, and then in
- the professional categories we have some tanks, subs, and nuclear weapons
- for the title holders.
-
-
- >We have another lesson game on Wednesday. I will contain myself. I will
- >again ignore the 10,4 stones. But I will fight like hell to keep from getting
- >confined to the blasted sides and corners again.
-
- Ok, Charlie. Consider also, Prince Valiant who fought for chivalry, Guenevere,
- and the Knights of the Round Table at Camelot (on the side of Heaven). I'm
- quite serious.
-
-
-
-
- >Yes, I think I am stubborn, but not to the point of paying 120/mo. to ignore
- >my teacher's advice. But sometimes it is not entirely clear what _the_
- >lesson is. The only game I won (granted some level of decline in Sensei's
- >game) was when I made one of his groups heavy and attacked - from the 10,4
- >stone. Of course, I came this close (holds thumb to forefinger) to losing
- >the "attacking" group, and nearly lost by 100 points or more. But Sensei
- >had very few free moves to attack me. Without cutting white into separate
- >armies and at least trying to attack them, how can I ever hope to progress?
- >The next game I lost like the last game, and was warned that "go is compromise."
-
- It takes two moves to loosely "connect" 4,4 to 10,4 in empty space. When
- White plays there the moves have to be more "connective." Don't confuse
- progress in your GO ability with the apparent "progress" in a particular game.
-
-
-
-
- >My 14 month old cries when he is teething. It is very painful. I am
- >teething, and I am crying, too. But how does a child learn? It is very
- >instinctive. Children learn best when they are not ridiculed for being
- >wrong, or silly. I am not saying you ridicule me, and you never have. You
- >have shown your teeth once or twice, but that's ok. Sensei can ridicule
- >me if he wishes, but my need to advance in playing strength is much stronger
- >than my fear of embarrassment. I will make mistakes, and I will regress
- >as I get better. I am not upset to be playing at 8-10 kyu. I am not in
- >a "rush", but I am determined to make steady progress.
-
- I recall when I first played violin in an orchestra. (I sat in the end of
- the 2nd violin section.) It was an amateur beginner's orchestra but I
- had extraordinary difficulty following the conductor, the music, the
- protocols, etc. This went on in great frustration for several weeks and
- perhaps more than a month. (I was about 10 years old at the time). Then,
- (after having "practiced" some -- whatever was possible at that ability),
- I was able to read all the way through the orchestra music "in tempo" (close
- enough for government work), and got to the end at about the same time
- everyone else did. What an incredible feeling of accomplishment!!! Though
- I played in many other orchestras during my public school years and also
- in college, I never forgot that initial moment of being in tune, on time
- and with the music. The memory brings tears to my eyes even now. I was
- soon promoted to assistant principle of the 2nd violin section. I was
- especially proud because my violin teacher was the conductor of that
- orchestra at the time and I knew that he was proud of me as well.
-
- I showed "teeth" when I though of that wild raccoon we trapped a few weeks ago.
- As we drove the raccoon back to the wilderness it made no attempt to be
- diplomatic with us. I was gratified that we were getting the *real* thing
- without any Coca-cola spilt on it.
-
-
-
- >Ok, so on Wednesday I take a giant leap to the left of the abyss and see if
- >I have managed to iterate productively, or if I have managed to learn nothing
- >from the last four games.
-
- Let's hope that "leap" will be a carefully considered "leap in faith" and not
- a "leap into the darkness."
-
-
- - Jeff ( aesop@blake.u.washington.edu )
-
-
-
- > I haven't looked at your analysis. I thought that if white moved "left"
- > with the capping stone, black would move "right" with the contact stone
- > at 10,6. But after a peep at 'a', and a connection at 'B', I could not tell
- > if the three black stones were strong or weak. It all depended on how
- > they could run to the right side (or how the right side could extend to
- > the three stones?)
-
-
- White's peep at "a" is *bad* !!! Peeping maneuvers have to be carefully
- considered (like all GO moves . . .), because one may generally peep from
- only one side or the other, forcing the opponent to make a connection (which
- is good for the opponent). Black's three vertical stones (after Black "B")
- is actually one of the strongest influence shapes in GO (for using 3 stones).
- White has no connection to the original play at 10,13 (for this variation),
- after White "a" and Black "b" so White's tactics have already failed. If
- you can restrain yourself from unnecessary or premature peeps you will improve
- by about 1.357289 stones. How will White proceed after White "c" (attempting
- to connect) and Black "D" ? Black has divided White, when it was White's
- strategy to divide Black by 10,13 !!!
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . O . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . a B . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . * . . . . c * . . . . . * . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . D O . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
-
- > On another point, concerning the high white invasion at 'a':
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 10 . . b * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 9 . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 8 . . c a e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 6 . . B * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- > The Ishi book (Attack and Defense) recommends 'd' for more aggressive
- > play (when appropriate), 'b' if the idea is to connect underneath - or
- > threaten to -, and 'c' if it is ok to sacrifice one of the stones which
- > white has separated. 'e' is not mentioned! I showed 'e' to some players
- > in Philadelphia (I even played it in two games), and the general opinion was
- > that 'e' "almost never works" (a quote from someone you won't know!) because
- > it gives up too much influence for the 4th line wall, which isn't all that
- > strong. (It needs another move to defend the cutting points).
-
- No, Suzuki Sensei says 'e' is tesuji *if* Black wants to connect his 4,4
- position to 10,4. However, we have to ask if this objective is the best
- way for Black to proceed. I brought out the discussion to illustrate a
- point -- i.e. that Black could connect the corner to the middle -- Black
- should at least be able to balance the prospect of this "connectability"
- against other prospective "Directions of Play" in the mix. The Ishi book
- is correct when considering an alternate line of strategy. In the Ishi
- book interpretation, the plan is to give way to the White invasion rather
- than contest it and recoup such "generosity" through a strong outer position
- on both sides. What is the meaning of the phrase "almost never works?"
- Does this mean:
- (a) must consider the opponent player, or
- (b) must consider the anomalous specifics of a given position?
- When we are presented with a specific problem (which is what we should be
- answering, rather than the impossible generalities) then *either* something
- "works" *or* it does not. *Either* it is an interesting "optimal" *or* it
- is not a preferred manner of process. We have to pin down these phrases
- "almost" or "sometimes" or "nearly" or "about" or "approximately." Don't
- accept vagueness in reply to your queries !!!
-
- It's true that Black must be prepared to play ko to gain the 4,4 to 10,4
- connection by this method if White threatens the cutting points, so Black
- must consider whether there is the wherewithall to handle a ko situation.
- There is a GO proverb which applies here, but demands some degree of
- committment in the early game. It is: "Do not be afraid of ko ... " In
- order to understand the proverb we have to understand how early game ko
- works. An empty board ko is valued at about 15-20 potential points. If
- there is already a ko potential due to the loss and/or chasing of stones
- then the ko question hinges upon whether an advantage is obtainable through
- exchange (furikawari) of positions/groups. Since there are many types
- of tesuji which depend upon the outcome of ko, the players must be attentive
- to the ko situation. As a consequence of the GO proverb regarding ko, another
- related proverb applies: "Do not be afraid of exchange ... "
-
- Yes, 'c' (underneath) is a possibility, but White gains either entry through
- the Black position or gets a strong life shape underneath and the cutting
- points on Black's wall are weaker towards the center than they would have been
- if Black had played at 'e'and tolerated cutting potentials towards the edge.
-
- When playing White against novices in high-handicap games I'm very happy to
- see Black's cautious reply at 'c' in response to White at 'a'.
-
- There's something to be aware of in GO strategy. If you try one type of
- strategy in one area of the board, sometimes this *means* that you must
- try an entirely different strategy in another area of the board in order
- to nullify any advantage the opponent player got by the influence outcome
- from the first strategy.
-
- Send the game from the Philadelphia GO club. I'll try to articulate some
- considerations if I can see the whole board position.
-
-
-
-
- 10 . . . * . . . . . *
- 9 . . . . . . . . . .
- 8 . . . 1 3 a . . . .
- 7 . . . . 2 4 . . . .
- 6 . . . * . . . . . .
- 5 . . x . . . . . . .
- 4 . . . * . O . . . *
- 3 . . . . * O . . . .
- 2 . . . . . . . . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . .
-
- > This position appeared against Sensei. I played 4, but Ishi recommends
- > 'a'. Once I looked at this position I realized why 'a' was better than
- > 4. 1 was questionable because it creates two weak groups. Some day I
- > will be strong enough to take advantage of a position where my opponent
- > has two weak groups. Apparently that is very dangerous!
-
- Ishi (just a publishing company) is correct in this type of general situation.
- Black at 'a' is playable because of the combination of '*' and '2' in the
- Black shape that would collapse to a strong 3-stone corner block if attacked.
- In response to Black at 'a' White can try at 10,5 or push at 9,5 or cut at
- '4' or just forget about the two White stones for the time being. We don't
- see a full board diagram here and it's very important to have the full
- board diagram presented in order to decide what White must do next.
-
-
-
-
- > In my game I played 'x' at some point. Sensei wrote: "[x] is a very
- > excellent position to play in handicap."
-
- Yes, notice that 'x' gives Black the legendary "L" shape on the diagonal.
- Also, the "v" of the "L" is pointing towards the edge which is the optimal
- orientation and the location of this "L" conveniently traps the corner for
- Black. Finally the long side to the "L" is directed towards the middle
- and center. It's difficult to ascertain just when these types of simple
- consolidating moves should be played. When Black has determined that there
- are no further *interesting* sente plays on the weak White position(s), then
- Black can temporarily *accept* a gote maneuver for territorialization.
-
-
- > I am sorry to hear that Sensei is not feeling well.
-
- He is feeling "better," though shamed by the need to "go to hospital..."
-
-
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Hi --
-
- I've received the Yamashiro/Takemiya game and played it out. The MEMO
- seems to be from Mr. Shirakami? I like the personal, handwritten touch.
- Thanks for sending it, I've never seen this newsletter before. Yet, where
- is the date on the newsletter and the date and location of the game?
-
- My Comments: Both Black and White are seeking the 'influence' points on
- the handicaps (1-5), meaning that White wants to contest the 'influence'
- theory of the "Sanren-Sei" thesis. Additionally, the players are both
- playing a very standardized and conservative fuseki. Because Black may
- be somewhat "amused" by White's insistence on fighting an 'influence'
- contest (imputed by moves 1-12), the move at 3-3 looks magnificent.
-
- It is logical that 3-3 on move #13 should exert wonderful strength into
- the Black shape because Black 9 is already supported by Black 11 and
- Black 5 is already supported by Black 1 & 7. Nothing near the corner
- along both sides is on the third line, so 3-3 "stops" the contemplation
- of a White invasion possibility in both directions.
-
- Mr. Shirakami says that 3-3 brings "Fresh Air" to GO. By this, I infer
- that Mr. Takemiya may have been smiling as he played 3-3 to watch his
- opponent's reaction. It is not exactly an unusual move but it's evident
- that by playing 3-3 on Black #13, Mr. Takemiya wants to assert some
- powerful idea vindicating the "Sanren-Sei" thesis. Whether this is
- indeed the case can be determined only by another 3,500 years of GO study.
-
- It is a beautiful game, though I felt that White #14 got compressed about
- itself (was unable to move anywhere) and White's *two* center groups are
- an unusual combination! I don't understand clearly why White did not make
- more fuss from his position at White #24, during the moves in the late 50s.
- A cut between Black's #5 & #7 would have been severe. (I guess this is
- why I'm an amateur player and these people are professionals.) Perhaps
- White was thinking about the problem of the open top territory and didn't
- want Black running in that direction.
-
- It is interesting to examine alternatives to White's #46, but this seems to
- be the best White can do here. White wants to think about the future
- invasability of the center from the left-middle so it's best not to press
- outwards too much from the right-lower White group.
-
- It is difficult to read the top boundary compromise, so I can understand
- why Mr. Yamashiro spent 31 minutes on White #96. Actually, it was very
- difficult to read even at White #88. I would not have seen Black's reply
- at #89, so I am studying this Takemiya move to figure it out. I had thought
- at this point that the topside was ready for some Black invasion. The
- Black stones at upper left middle appear connected to me, if Black wants
- to give up the small ko near the edge. Would this trade justify a Black
- move into the topside?
-
-
- I seem to recall this end-game problem from many years ago, or a another game
- that went very much like it. If White attempts to stop the Black seki
- maneuver, White might get ko, but then Black can control all of the endgame
- sente.
-
- I've looked at many combinations in the corner sente problem. There
- wasn't a way out for Mr. Yamashiro (White) after Mr. Takemiya's "sharp move."
-
- Black would get seki or a flower-viewing ko in all combinations:
-
- The game went:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O E B C G |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O * * d |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O . h |
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O O a | Black at "a"
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O f |
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O b |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- Producing:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O * * * |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O . * |
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O O * | Seki for Black.
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O * |
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O * |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- Mr. Shirakami (newsletter author?) says "Black and White got Seki." At first,
- it seems that this is not accurate because Black "stole" this corner territory
- from White. We say "Black and White got Seki" when *both* Black and White
- require the seki in order to remain on the board (often in the mid-center).
- In this case it is Black who is playing for Seki or flower-viewing ko. White
- has agreed to compromise with seki; White can retain residual end-game sente.
-
- ??
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | White plays #152 one-point right.
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O * . . |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O . . | ( Doesn't help ).
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O . . |
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O . |
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- Then:
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O * a . | Black at "a"
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O c B |
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O D e | If White at "B" ?
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O F | Black gets the flower-viewing ko.
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O * * * |
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O * O |
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O O . | Bad for White, because Black
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O O | can find ko treats ?
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O a | Black starts from "a" to
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O | play huge ko.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
-
-
- So, White must play for seki as before and keep his stones & residual sente.
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | White plays #152 one-point right.
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O * a . | ( no improvement )
- 17 . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O * O . . |
- 16 . . . * . . . O O * O O O . . * O B . | Black at "a"
- 15 . . . . . . . . * * * * * . . * * O . |
- 14 . . . . etc. . . . . . . * . * O O . |
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * O . |
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * O O |
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * O |
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . * O |
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * | White plays for simple seki.
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . etc. . . . . . . |
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
-
- - - - - - - - - -
-
- Had White done something with White #24 earlier in the game, this "seki"
- problem might not have occurred. In retrospect, it seems rather difficult
- to estimate, not knowing much about how both players viewed the topside.
-
- If Black #13 at 3-3 exhibits a vulnerability, then working from White #24
- effectively would have exploited that vulnerability. I suspect that the
- unorthodox nature of Black #13 at 3-3 may have served as a psychological
- distortion, in this case, sufficient to push the game towards Black.
-
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-
-
-
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- 18 . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . | I cannot recommend black at
- 17 . . * O O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | p18.
- 16 . . . * . . O * . * . . . O . * . . . |
- 15 . . O * . * * O O . . . O * . . . . . | Upper right corner is insecure.
- 14 . * * * * O O * . . . . O * . * . . . |
- 13 . * O O O * O * . O . . . * . . . . . | Black at n13 was good (this time).
- 12 . O O O * * O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
- 11 . . O * . . * . . . . O * . . . . * * | White at c15 was too early.
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . O . * . * * O . |
- 9 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
- 7 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | White at k6 was hopeful, but
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . O O . . | worked this time.
- 5 . . * . . . . . . O . O * . . . * . . |
- 4 . . . * . . . . . * . O . * . * . . . |
- 3 . . . . . * . . . . . . . . * . . . . |
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | Remaining 3 corners are "secure."
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
-
-
- This was a masterful game for Black, admiring it as I punched it in with
- the editor. I can't find much wrong with it so in this case,
- "no comments are good comments ..."
-
- Black shows restraint, knowing when to stop pressuring White into a direction
- unprofitable for Black, instead consolidating the (available) White captures.
-
- After this, you can be sure that Sensei will shift into a higher gear.
-
- It's quite rare for Sensei to resign, but it's also clear that he hadn't
- much of an alternative, given that he had chosen this particular (unfortuitous)
- combination of White overplays.
-
-
-
- ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
- This file can be scrollable using ^-V and M-V keys in emacs.
- For comments, leave room in the side window. (Don't fill it up.) Keep
- the comments on contiguous lines for the macro (which installs the ">" marks).
-
- Place "White Moves at 1" or "Black moves at a" (preferable) indicators on
- the line corresponding to the 18th or 19th line in the diagram (as shown).
-
- Use the "go-board" with lettering across the top, for algebraic coordinates.
- -------------------------------------------------------- cut here --------
- a b c d e f g h j i k l m n o p q r s K.W. vs S.Suzuki (date ..)
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . white moves at 1:
- 17 . . . . . 1 . 2 . . a . . . . . . . .
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . 6 . 5 . . * . . . > 6 is probably very bad. I
- 15 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . b . . . . > almost played 6 at 8, but I
- 14 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 . . . > got the idea that 5 was aimed
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . > at 2. I thought if I was
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > going to extend from 2, 6
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > was better than 'a'.
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . .
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 8 is weak too. I should have
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > played 'b' (maybe) to run to
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > the center and pressure 5.
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 should be at n16 or n17.
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . If 6 is bad then 2 is also bad.
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . But 2 is bad anyway.
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sensei has told me that he thinks
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . the 2,a combination is "attackable."
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . black moves at 1:
- 17 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . . 9 . .
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * . . . > This entire sequence is botched
- 15 . . . . . O . . . . . . 4 3 1 8 7 . . > so badly I am embarassed to
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . 2 O * 6 . . > send it. Now white is strong
- 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . > on the outside and I have no
- 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > access to the center.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . 5 could be at m16
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If you play 5 near p14, then
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . play 5 at q14.
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . .
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s DISCUSSION ABOUT BASE ...
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . white moves at 1:
- 18 . . . a 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 at l18, first, 6 at n18 . . .
- 17 . . . 8 . O . * . . . . 3 2 . . * . . > I thought with white getting
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * . . . > so strong on the right, I had
- 15 . . . . . O . 4 . . . c O * * O * . . > better run to the center, and
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . b . O O 1 O . . > maybe pressure whites stones
- 13 . . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . O * . . > on the left, which don't have
- 12 . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > eye shape.
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 can be at e18 (due to Black h17)
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . > 7 made me worry about the corner,
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > so I played 8. This should've
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > been at 'a' judging from the
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > white play at 9, which looked
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > like 8 was a thankyou move. And
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > white 9 is sente, I think.
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . * . . . correct.
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . but "b" or "c" should be at k14
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 18 . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . black moves at 1: ( extra move )
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . . . O * . . * . . > I think these moves are reasonable.
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * 3 . . > I could see that the right side
- 15 . 5 . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * 2 . > was going to be painted white,
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . > but (can you believe this??) I
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . > thought I could whip up a grand
- 12 . 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > attack on the white stones at
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > left! I figured the corner was
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . > safe (but out of play!!) and he
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > had no eye space. And I thought
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > my group at upper center was still
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . > ok. Maybe I should have tried
- 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > to settle this group...
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 can be at e12 (famous tesuji we
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . 7 . * 8 . . discussed), preventing white 4.
- 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . 5 can be at c13, w-c12, b-m14 ...
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Against 6, 7 can be at q5.
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 18 . . . * O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . white moves at 1:
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . . . O * . . * . . > 4 was part of my grand scheme to
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * * . . > go after the white stones on the
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . > top left. Enough said...
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . .
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . > After white 5 I started wondering
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > about how I should've played
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > against 3. Maybe 'a'?
- 10 . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . .
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > I think 4 was a bone-headed move.
- 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . yes, too soon to play 4. Must
- 6 . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . first stop 3 with 4 at m3.
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . .
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * . * O . .
- 3 . . . . . . . . . a . 3 . 9 7 . * 2 .
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 8 . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . black moves at 1:
- 18 . . . * O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Ugh. I almost played 5 at 8, and
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . . . O * . . * . . > I should've. It would have been
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * * . . > consistent with my plans against
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . > white at top. Even a bad plan
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . > is better than no plan!
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . > Sensei said: why on earth did I
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > play 7? Reflex! I thought 6 was
- 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > aiming and I was afraid of having
- 10 . . 9 * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . > to figure out life, so I played
- 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > a tiny move.
- 8 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > White 2 surprised me. I didn't
- 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . > think he would allow 3, but of
- 6 . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > course with 6 white is getting
- 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . 2 O . . > very powerful.
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * 3 * O 7 . > 9 was pathetic. Sensei said:
- 3 . . . 5 . 4 . . . . . O . O O 1 * * . > "why did I run with the 10,4 ?
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . > Should be a scapegoat stone! 9
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > makes heavy shape, great target."
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s ------ right! ( no comment )
- 19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . white moves at 1:
- 18 . . . * O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 2 is totally submissive. The
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . . . O * . . * . . > game is almost over! Sensei says
- 16 . . . * . . . . . . * . O . . * * . . > with 3 white has ideal shape and
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . > a good target to attack. With
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . > 4 I wanted to "aim" at the white
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . > territory at lower edge. But now
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > I have _two_ weak groups, so...
- 11 . . . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . > 7 and 9 are double attack! When
- 10 . . * * . 6 . . . * . . . . . * . . . > 9 was played I felt the game was
- 9 . 3 . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . > beyond repair.
- 8 . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . No, 2 is excellent. 4 isn't big.
- 6 . 2 * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 should have been at 6, then you
- 5 . . . . . 4 . . . . . . O . . O O . . had some chance to connect up.
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * .
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * .
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > I was trying to settle the group.
- 18 . 5 . * O . 1 . . . 6 . . . . . . . . > I didn't see that 1 lost sente.
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . . . O * . . * . . > 6 is wonderful - scoops out my
- 16 . . . * . 8 7 . 9 . * . O . . * * . . > eyes with one move. I had been
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . > counting on one eye on the lower
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . > edge and then peeps like 7 with
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . > the follow-up at 9 to keep safe.
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 11 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . > I haven't looked at the game in
- 10 . . * * . * . . . * . . . . . * . . . > detail yet. I thought during the
- 9 . O . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . > game that with best play I could
- 8 . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . > live after 6. Now I'm not sure.
- 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . black moves at 1:
- 6 . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 5 . . . . . * . . . . . . O . . O O . . Black 9 is superfluous. At this
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * . point I would resign against Sensei,
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * . but perhaps you are a stronger
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . player than I. After all, you
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . have 95 pt komi -- difficult to say
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . * O O . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . > I wasn't thinking I could connect
- 18 . * . * O . * . 5 2 O 6 9 . . . . . . > to the upper right. I was already
- 17 . . . * . O . * . 3 4 8 O * . . * . . > down to my last 30 minutes, and was
- 16 . . . * . O * . * . * . O . . * * . . > hoping to find some last minute
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . > miracle at 'a' with white shortage
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . a O O O O . . > of liberties.
- 13 . . . . . O . * . 1 . . . . . O * . .
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > I knew the game was over. I just
- 11 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . > wanted to watch the kill. I think
- 10 . . * * . * . . . * . . . . . * . . . > I am entitled to that, although
- 9 . O . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . > perhaps that is impolite. But it
- 8 . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . > is educational. If I had less than
- 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . > 30 minutes left I would have
- 6 . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > resigned already.
- 5 . . . . . * . . . . . . O . . O O . .
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * . > 1 was a depressing move to see.
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * . White 1 stops Black at "a"
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . White 9 attacks UR corner.
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . white moves at 1:
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . * O O . . . . O . . 2 . . . . . . > I resigned on 9. Actually I played
- 18 . * . * O . * . O . O * O 1 . . . . . > 7 at 'a' on my board but mistyped
- 17 . . . * . O . * . O * * O * . . * . . > on the computer. Not that that
- 16 . . . * . O * . * 6 * . O . . * * . . > matters at all.
- 15 . * . . . O . * . 8 a 7 O * * O * O .
- 14 . . . * . 4 3 . . . . 5 9 O O O O . . black moves at 1:
- 13 . . . . . O . * . O . . . . . O * . .
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Black 5 doesn't accomplish much
- 11 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . ( in general ). If there's
- 10 . . * * . * . . . * . . . . . * . . . something here it was going to
- 9 . O . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . be at the cut.
- 8 . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .
- 6 . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 5 . . . . . * . . . . . . O . . O O . .
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * .
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * .
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l n m o p q r s
- 19 . . * O O . . . . O . . O . . . . . .
- 18 . * . * O . * . O . O * O * . . . . .
- 17 . . . * . O . * . O * * O * . . * . . Final Position:
- 16 . . . * . O * . * O * . O . . * * . .
- 15 . * . . . O . * . O . * O * * O * O .
- 14 . . . * . O * . . . . * * O O O O . .
- 13 . . . . . O . * . O . . . . . O * . .
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes, it became painful to comment.
- 11 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . I suspect that you are prone to
- 10 . . * * . * . . . * . . . . . * . . . biorhythms and/or job stress which
- 9 . O . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . may make it difficult at times
- 8 . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . for you to play consistently
- 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . strong. ( Just *you*, KURT ?)
- 6 . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's OK to chip in together as
- 5 . . . . . * . . . . . . O . . O O . . a club if a few guys want to
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * . alternate lesson games. If you
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * . want to do this let Sensei know
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . . to gauge variance in strength.
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
-
- >After the game, Sensei made three points:
-
- >1. My pincer (my very first move in this game) was "presumptuous." We
- > both laughed. I told him I wasn't trying to be insulting, but that
- > I had read that the pincer is the strongest move. We both agreed that
- > next time a simple extension from the 4,4 stone was simplest and best.
-
- I don't try the pincer against a stronger player unless I already have another
- stone to support it on that side. One must -keep sente- in the early game !
- A premature attack forfeits sente !!!!
-
-
- >2. My tiny move in the lower right corner came in for heavy criticism.
-
- Looked like you wanted to crawl instead of learning to walk.
-
-
- >3. The descent from the 10,4 stone on the left side (to 10,3) was also
- > heavily criticized. Sensei asks me why I am running with the side
- > stones? Jeff - I don't want to hear anything about this from you!
- > I know, I know, I KNOW ALREADY!!!
-
- It might have been possible, but it was already *sub-optimal* at that point.
- Judging by the earlier moves made in this game, one would have to say that
- Black hadn't the -skill- necessary to run with the 10,4 stone effectively.
- Black didn't accurately estimate the residual weakness remaining in the
- top group when impulsively running with the 10,4 stone. It's almost as if
- Black -just- began to notice that there is a 10,4 stone on the left side
- of the board. (Wasn't it consciously there from the beginning of the game?)
- End of lecture.
-
-
-
-
- >In the final position I have 8 groups on the board. I was sliced and diced.
-
- Really, 8 groups? They all live?
-
-
-
- >We play another 7-stone 95 komi next week. I just received Ishida Yoshio's
- >dictionary of basic joseki, volume 3. This includes the star points.
-
- >I hope you enjoy the above game. Sensei was fantastic. I think
- >psychologically I wasn't prepared for 7 stones. It is very much different
- >from 9 stones! I also learned the difference between knowing some joseki
- >and knowing fuseki. My extension from my pincer move (my move 6)? Was
- >white 5 a threat against the pincering stone? I don't think so. And then
- >the bolluxed upper right corner, making white so strong, locking myself into
- >the corner.
-
- As I had mentioned in an early diagram: Black needed L18 before skipping
- out into the center (though this method of process is *sub-optimal* anyway
- because the stones at h17 & k16 were already being entrapped by White).
-
-
-
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
- 19 . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I was trying to settle the group.
- 18 . 5 . * O . 1 . . c 6 b . . . . . . . I didn't see that 1 lost sente.
- 17 . . . * . O . * . . a . O * . . * . . 6 is wonderful - scoops out my
- 16 . . . * . 8 7 . 9 . * . O . . * * . . eyes with one move. I had been
- 15 . * . . . O . * . . . . O * * O * O . counting on one eye on the lower
- 14 . . . * . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . edge and then peeps like 7 with
- 13 . . . . . O . * . . . . . . . O * . . the follow-up at 9 to keep me safe.
- 12 . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- 11 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . I haven't looked at the game in
- 10 . . * * . * . . . * . . . . . * . . . detail yet. I thought during the
- 9 . O . . . . * . . . . . . . . . . . . game that with best play I could
- 8 . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . live after 6. Now I'm not so sure.
- 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .
- 6 . * * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Of course, what follows is pretty
- 5 . . . . . * . . . . . . O . . O O . . brutal. I played pretty poorly.
- 4 . . . * . . . . . . . . . * * * O * .
- 3 . . . * . O . . . . . O . O O * * * . black moves at 1:
- 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O * * . . .
- 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
- a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
-
-
-
- >Just after a couple of minutes of thought, black a, white b, black c
- >looks like a better shot at life than what I played. (But then almost
- >anything would be!). It seems there are plenty of eye-stealing tesuji
- >in this position, so I won't say for certain that black lives. Maybe
- >you can even say for certain what the result is. Even if the group lives,
- >black loses.
-
- It's a very bad situation to deal with White's move 6, so bad that we
- discuss preventing it in the first place. Before dancing out into the center,
- one must make a "base" along the side. An invasion divides the side,
- so there isn't time to make a base. When two stones are spread along the
- side, however, one ought to take advantage by making the base there, too.
-
- ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
-
-
-
- >I did lose, but not terribly. Well, I resigned at around move 100 or so.
- >I played the komi, and gave up top and bottom territory for a fat moyo on
- >the left. I was alert at the critical moment - that is, I saw that I either
- >had to add a stone to the moyo (at 10,3) to prevent deep invasion, or else
- >add a stone to the center. I chose the latter, and Sensei played 10,3
- >himself. I felt good that I at least had the instincts to know where the
- >"vital" point was, but irritated that I didn't play there myself. Anyway,
- >a big life/death struggle ensued. I took white's eyes, but made a mistake
- >and allowed Sensei to connect to life. Afterwards, I kept trying to ask
- >whether white should've died or lived with best black play. Sensei kept
- >saying that kyu player should have played at 10,3 and prevented the deep
- >invasion. Finally he got my question, and said he would not have played
- >10,3 against dan player (actually, he said he would have "thought harder
- >before playing 10,3"). He told me where my premature move was in the life
- >and death struggle. After the game I looked at the position some more, and
- >even letting the white group get into the center was not fatal - allowing it
- >to connect to life was. If I had prevented that connection, I could've
- >attacked the group and then gained sente to invade Sensei territory.
-
- I can see you began a conversation with this self-styled Zen non-master.
- John Shinn remarks to me that in response to Andy Wang's query about the
- "goodness" of a move, Mr. Suzuki will usually look at it for a few seconds
- and then say, "Yes, it looks reasonable .... " (Does this mean good or bad?)
- The fact, however, is that white against handicaps must be thinking about
- the unreasonable moves and overplays. So, if you ask Mr. Suzuki what move
- *he* would be playing against an opponent, you'll get an answer very different
- from his advice dispensed to a student. I am reading into his cryptic comment
- (which I assume you have correctly quoted) that "thinking harder before
- playing 10,3" refers not merely to that thought during the interval between
- the move previous to the 10,3 consideration and that move, but also to the
- "thinking harder" (explicitly generated by the knowledge representation in
- the stones themselves) that is manifest in the 50 or 80 moves leading the
- game into that position. In a back-handed way he is saying politely that
- more than a few of the leading moves black made towards that position being
- considered were sub-optimal. (This is a problem in analyzing almost any
- posed GO problem.) Neither are the professionals immune from the problem
- which amounts to a "lack of analyzability."
-
- I finally received the summer issue of GO WORLD magazine in late December.
- There are some striking games in this issue (#56, I think) which detail
- a game of Michael Redmond (nearly trashing the redoubtable Yoshio Ishida),
- and the third game of the Ing Cup between Cho (Korea) and Nie (Red China),
- and the Kisei title match series between Kobayashi and Takemiya. If you
- are looking for some refutations of Takemiya's "Sanren-sei" cosmic hypothesis,
- the 1989 Kisei games seem to vindicate Kobayashi's "submarine style" GO.
- Kobayashi's game, the comments say, is "analyzable" (but not brilliant),
- as contrasted to Takemiya's "unanalyzable" (but sometimes brilliant) game.
- Myself, not being such a genius, prefer Kobayashi's dull, plodding, scholarly
- approach to GO. I am happy to see these games. Do you subscribe to
- GO WORLD? One issue is worth 10 Sensei games, in my opinion. :-)
-
-
-
-
-
-
- >Anyway I lost big by the score, but not badly (by 3-dan/8kyu standards)).
- >I feel like I am starting to make reasonable moves at times, and feel like
- >I am getting a feel for "critical" moments in the game. But my tactics
- >and reading ability are still pathetic.
-
- Remember that GO is not merely a matter of making *only* the "reasonable"
- moves !!! Gain control over the state-of-affairs by keeping sente.
-
-
-
-
-
- >I was thinking of asking you for a game. But holidays are bad on my time.
- >Tonight I am with friends, and tomorrow night we are hosting my parents for
- >dinner. Weekdays are better than weekends, but perhaps not for your
- >schedule.
-
- Yes, and you just may be lucky (fortunate?) to find friends and relatives
- still young to life and receptive to learning the stairway to heaven game.
-
-
-
-
- >Tonight I have to write Mr. Suzuki a letter explaining my problems with
- >the ultra fast pace he wants. I won't be taking lessons with him unless
- >he can understand this point. Besides, it sounds like Joonha will not
- >be long for the relaying job. Please tell him how much I appreciate his
- >efforts, and that I empathize with his feelings about sending "hurry up"
- >messages. I don't kill the messenger!
-
- Actually, it's the nature of your game that sets him off a little bit.
- When he looks at the board he sees your obvious move that you really "must"
- make (at times). Instead, you are dinking around for two or three minutes
- clipping your toenails. Well, that's ok (in my country), but if you were
- *here* in Seattle, Sensei might be able to -tell- you: "right here, Kurt."
- I think he wants to telegraph something helpful while at the same time he
- can't do so overtly by means of a relay system. In particular, I think
- Sensei may have a mental block against telegraphing his secretive analysis
- to an impersonal third party (relayer) during the course of an actual game.
- This also indicates he is more skilled as a player than as a teacher.
- So, it's a WYSIWYG proposition, I gather.
-
- On the other hand, if I stop making excuses for you, I have to agree that
- you are sometimes delaying unnecessarily. I think 6 out of 7 moves in GO
- are straightforward (once a sequence has been selected), leaving 1 out of 7
- moves for "Deep Thought." Andy Wang, 2-dan, has a frivolous attitude towards
- the game. Though he is a strong player, he says that he doesn't take GO
- seriously. He really is able to laugh about himself during losing situations.
- A cultivation of amusement is in keeping, I think, to the fantasy role-playing
- aspect common to games in general.
-
- Andy Teh, 6-dan, showed up at the Eve of New Year's Eve party, wanting to
- play Blackjack instead of GO. (Other people said that he was "scared" that
- night to play the other GO-crazy partygoers with the handicaps they would
- demand against him.) Andy Teh says that Blackjack is "better than" Poker
- because Blackjack is strictly against the dealer and *not* the other players.
- Well, the rules to Blackjack are rather curious (Las Vegas style) if one
- stops a moment to think them out. Since I am "grokking" Andy Teh for
- picking up any vital signs of GO, I mulled for a few moments upon the
- Blackjack rules, i.e., the "split," the "double-down," the "insurance bet,"
- the difference between Blackjack and 21, etc. The quality of the ace.
- The suit irrelevance of the cards. When to hit and when to stay depending
- on what the dealer shows and whatever card-counting systems are devised.
-
-
-
-
- >I was thinking of advertising at the Phil. Korean club for 4-dan teachers.
- >It couldn't hurt.
-
- I think you'll get away with this without angering any professionals. :-)
- Don't feel that you owe any loyalty to Mr. Suzuki. I'm fundamentally
- praying for him. I've helped him find students and other contacts and
- sponsors. I forged the signature on this year's WSGA application to the
- Osaka Exhibition Culture Exchange Fund because we couldn't locate the
- President Bill Camp in a timely manner.
-
-
-
-
- >Have a happy new year's evening. I'll send you the score of my game if
- >you like.
-
- No, just send the game itself.
-
- --) =)
-
- (aesop@milton.u.washington.edu)
-
- >> Running out the moves to the bitter end doesn't illustrate for the readers
- >> what great calculators these pros can be.
-
- >Granted, Kobayashi calculates quite often during the game, and quite
- >accurately. However, please note that the endgame moves _were_ played.
-
- I'm trying to understand your point. According to the rules for GO, endgame
- moves must be played if neither player has resigned. A publication, such
- as GO WORLD, is not bound to the rules for GO; it is bound to the "all the
- news which is fit to print" idea.
-
-
-
-
- >Did Kobayashi's opponent (Redmond) know he was losing by 4 1/2 points?
- ^^^^^^^^^^^ < -- ?
-
- (That would be the Redmond-Ishida game? ) Michael Redmond is not a strong
- "calculator" for GO, though he is pro 6-dan. The etiquette for a resignation
- protocol also operates on a "sliding scale" among the dans. Thus, a 6-dan
- is not expected to accurately calculate the score at 9-dan quality.
-
-
-
- >Was he playing the game out merely on the basis of last-ditch cheapo's?
-
- We also have to remember that many of these matches are "sponsored" by
- GO Publications, and/or the newspaper chains which want to produce the
- game diagram for selling their newspapers. The players thereby sense some
- obligation to produce the end-game, though one player may sense that he/she
- is on the losing side of a struggle.
-
- The matter of knowing when to continue play and when to stop play is an
- art; this is another dimension to the philosophy behind this GO phenomena.
-
- The definition of a CHEAPO is one not widely shared. I regard a CHEAPO
- as a simple snap-back or missed atari. On a professional level, a CHEAPO
- may be as much as the three-step ko that Rin Kai Ho played against
- Cho Hyun-Yun (in the Fujitsu match of 1988-89). Among friends, there may
- be great lattitude for the meaning of a CHEAPO; thus, (here is philosophy),
- an accommodation of an opponent's failure to detect the CHEAPO often
- signifies deep friendship among the players. GO training make take many
- forms, all of them are questions of how one's time is being utilized.
- Both players may implicitly desire to focus time upon the deeper questions
- of GO rather than wasting efforts on the detection of the obvious CHEAPOs.
-
- On the other hand, (especially in tournaments), such courtesies must be
- suspended. We see sometimes a professional game decided by some CHEAPO
- because the pros themselves had some difficulty shifting mental gears
- between the pre-match analysis in a courteous atmosphere to the actual
- match which may become a knock-down drag-out battle for the prize money.
- In this context nobody will criticize the CHEAPO maneuver, money being
- at stake. In the context of a GO School, the CHEAPO expectation must
- be discouraged. At a club the players can fall into their game-specific
- arrangements.
-
- For the GO School, this doesn't sound fair: White is making the overplays
- and Black must refute them. Doesn't White in a sense rely upon the CHEAPO?
- Why can't Black *also* rely upon a CHEAPO? (I'll let you answer this
- question, because I think you can derive, or "ferret out" the situation.)
-
-
-
-
-
-
- >Here is an interesting question: if I were to take Kobayashi's position
- > ^^^^^^^^^^^ < -- Ishida?
- >against Redmond in the final diagram, would you expect me to win by 4 1/2
- >points? Or would I lose?
-
- How final is final? GO WORLD has "decided" where to put a "final
- diagram." At the actual match, however, the "final diagram" would be
- either the position at resignation or the position with all neutral points
- filled. It is common for some professionals to turn simultaneous games
- over to their students to clean up towards the end-game. So, in this
- sense, the "trivial pursuit" is sufficiently trivial when there is some
- margin of error going into the end-game. If White is still trailing by
- a few points, White may be reluctant to turn-over the end-game details.
- So, the question is really whether you could hold Michael Redmond's position
- (who is White), not whether you could hold Yoshio Ishida's position (who
- is Black). And, I have to agree with you that the entire game analysis
- was for the purpose of the yose (endgame), so it seems rather frustrating
- to have this aspect of GO remain unpublished !!! Perhaps this might be
- some incentive for a few types to attend the match, paying the entry fee
- of a spectator . . .
-
- I think the question is similar to the usage of "etc." in English.
- You are asking the right question concerning whether your scoring of the
- game might correspond to the scoring "claimed" by a sort of puzzle posed
- in GO WORLD. This, then, is your test to work out for yourself. Can
- you arrive at the same answer that the pros arrived at, given that "final"
- diagram? ( So, a "final diagram" can be defined this way: all of the
- professional combinations led to the same score at the finish.)
-
-
-
-
-
- >There is great skill underlying even the most mundane plays. Which endgame
- >sequence should be played? in what order? Is it better to try for 2 points
- >with sente or 5 points and lose sente (in some position)? Seeing the
- >worlds best play out these mundane sequences - and remember, they did this
- >in any event! - really seems to be valuable. It is hardly a reasonable
- >excuse to say that final diagrams are cluttered. In the endgame especially
- >it isn't too hard to locate the plays (and if it is, then the endgame wasn't
- >all that mundane anyway).
-
- What you say is certainly true concerning the question of sente and setups.
- There is the game of "dots and boxes" which can become fiendishly difficult
- towards the "end-game." There are complicated "nim" problems (pick up sticks)
- which are tying up the lose ends of sente and point captures. However, we
- must also account for the fact that many of the end-game captures are
- becoming arbitrary, simply exchanging a point here for a point there, and
- so on. You have felt, no doubt, the sensation of a deflating balloon at
- the endgame. Towards this point, the skill involved in resolving the
- position rapidly decreases so that any kyu player can read it out. Thereby
- we no longer require the skills of these professionals (whose time is so
- valuable) to answer our question. A publication, recognizing this, does
- not waste space on what local kyu players can work out on their own.
- The professionals, as well, don't need to study the trivial pursuits;
- many subscribers to GO WORLD (in its Japanese newspaper form) are pros
- and don't want to pay the money to be bothered by what they feel are the
- trivialities. (This is a sort of "trickle-down" theory of GO knowledge.)
-
- When the endgame is *not* mundane or trivial, we may find all moves printed.
- Some publications in Korea or China may do this as a matter of formality.
- The Japanese, however, (who have also devised the International Rule Standard
- for GO), have a cultural propensity to leave trivialities undetailed. To
- an outsider (from the West) this can be painfully uncommunicative; we must
- also realize that Japan is not quite the *open* society that the USA can be.
- Among the Asian nations, secrecy was often employed as a defensive measure
- among the rival feudal protectorates. During the Japanese occupation of
- Korea, for example, in the early half of this century, the Koreans developed
- a "secret" language which no one else could understand. To this day
- Mr. Suzuki says that he cannot understand a single world of this "secret"
- Korean language. I might add that it was rather difficult for the Koreans
- to do this (considering the cryptoanalytic capacities of the Japanese
- anthropologists), which is a feat that credits the intelligence of Korea.
-
-
-
-
-
-
- >I can't say that I have a favorite player. I don't know enough to appreciate
- >the differences of style yet. I would expect that eventually I will find
- >things of value in the various styles of play, as I do in chess. I like
- >the vastness of Takemiya's style, especially those "inimitable slack" moves
- >which just build thickness. The key is "inimitable" of course. But he
- >certainly got a drubbing!
-
- This suggests to me that one arrives on the GO stage with psychological
- propensities, hidden preferences, that seek to vindicate one or another
- "style" or "interpretation." Throughout the history of GO, we can expect
- to find a classical rivalry among the various "styles" & "interpretations."
- I think my appreciation for Kobayashi may parallel my "building" approach
- to GO software (bits and pieces that are connecting together in modules).
- I do not see Takemiya as the sort of personality that cares much about
- the artificial intelligence project of GO software. However, we must
- also recognize that Takemiya's approach may ultimately that final recourse
- human players have against a machined perfection (which would be mostly
- "analyzable").
-
-
-
- >Speaking of upsets, I thought the Jimmy Cha vs. Cho Hyun-Yun game was even
- >more amazing than the Redmond-Ishida game.
-
- Yes indeed. I don't know how to quantify the subjectivity of "amazing." :-)
-
-
- regards,
-
- ( aesop@milton.u.washington.edu )
-
-
-